Stephen Walker: There we go.
Stephen Walker: There we go. Thank you, sir. And so, John, would you be okay to start us off with a prayer.
John Blackmore: Sure exactly. Oh, yeah, no problem.
John Blackmore: father. I thank you for an opportunity 1st of all, to speak to my brother here, and I thank you for
John Blackmore: what you've done in each of our lives to bring us to you. We thank you for your Grace and your love and father putting us in places of leadership in your body. And, father, I just pray that you would guide our thoughts and our words. And, father, just as we kind of. Strive to see where you want to lead this church where you want to lead Laura and I in our ministry. And, father, we just want to do your will. Thank you for Jesus. I thank you for
John Blackmore: the grade
John Blackmore: opportunity and responsibility to serve Him in your kingdom, and we love you, and we thank you. In Jesus, name Amen.
Stephen Walker: Hey, man? All right. So so I have 10 questions. But here's what usually happens is that I'll ask one of these questions, and then, quite often, you might answer another one of the questions, and answering the one that I asked.
John Blackmore: Okay.
Stephen Walker: So we may. You may not hear me ask you 10 separate questions, but I I have those here, and then and then sometimes we're able to
Stephen Walker: really work around some of these questions, because, like, I said, I can extrapolate answers from you know how you respond to some other things. And then, at the end of the session, as we talked about, feel free to ask anything that's on your heart, and then we'll answer those for you as well, and so we'll jump right in and get started. So in your career. To this point, John.
Stephen Walker: what are you? What are you most proud of?
John Blackmore: I think overall number one ministry is family, and I think I'm very proud. I got a son who's 27. He's married. He lives here in Sullivan. He works at a bank, him and his wife are committed to Christ and serving.
John Blackmore: and then my other son is he just graduated from Central Christian College of the Bible, and he's actually still serving at the church. I resigned from the Ridge church, and both both my boys have an incredible.
John Blackmore: real faith in Christ that has become their own, you know, growing
John Blackmore: your kid. They inherited a little bit, but I think it's their own.
John Blackmore: So to me, that's that. And my wife is incredible.
John Blackmore: Follow me everywhere I've gone, and just faithful and doing that, and this coming year we'll celebrate. It's crazy. 40 years of marriage. So.
Stephen Walker: So.
John Blackmore: On a personal level. That's, I think, number one, and then number 2 is just we still strive, and we're striving right now at this time, just to make our lives all about the kingdom. You know a lot of times you do these pros and cons and churches and ministries, and where you should go. But
John Blackmore: I think every time we've made a commitment to be in a place we've tried to do our best to see. Okay, if this is God's leading, and sometimes I think we've hit it. Sometimes we've missed it, but.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
John Blackmore: And I can go back. I think I can safely say I can go back to any place I've ever ministered, and we have friends. I can go back, and I've often been asked to preach in some of those churches, and.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I don't know how long you've been in leadership in the church. Sometimes it doesn't always work out that way. But
John Blackmore: I don't think we have these. Unfortunately, I got other friends in the ministry and with bad experiences, and
John Blackmore: so I'm pretty proud of that.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: Those are some of the things.
Stephen Walker: Alright. Thank you, sir, so can you tell me a little bit about your experience, preaching and teaching.
John Blackmore: Well, I went to school one year I went to Eastern Illinois University. I grew up in the church, grew up in a very conservative church, and I kinda always say it this way. We weren't for sure we were going to heaven, but we knew no one else was
John Blackmore: man.
John Blackmore: It was a little church of Christ loved the people. It was instrumental church of Christ, but Newton, Illinois, and I loved it. But then I went to college. I, you know, got bombarded with all the stuff you get at a secular school, and I was like, man. Is this all true? And I came to a point there at college that I finally, I think, fully surrendered my life to Christ and
John Blackmore: But there was those nagging questions, so that that led me to Bible College and man it just caught on fire there, I mean soaking in what the Professors St. Louis Christian College teach in the Bible. It all came together for me, and I really didn't go to be a minister. I
John Blackmore: just thought I wanted to make sure if I'm putting all the eggs in this basket, and then.
Stephen Walker: Good.
John Blackmore: I was asked to. I was playing basketball. My coach asked me to fill in at a church where, as a children's minister, and then that Guy Richard really just mentored me, says, Why don't you stay on and be the youth minister? And then he, you know, he would knew what he was doing, he says, Hey, why don't you preach Sunday night?
John Blackmore: And really, the 1st time I begin to
John Blackmore: to preach, I just felt like, Oh, man, this is where it's at, and I think you know, kind of I just say it, you know God gave me a big mouth, and it wasn't to talk about myself, but about him.
John Blackmore: so I love. If there's anything I say I really love about ministry is when the light comes on. For people, you know, when you're.
Stephen Walker: 3 min.
John Blackmore: Boom. They're they're and I feel like God's given me.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
John Blackmore: Gift to be able to be Biblical, but relevant, and it almost all generations, you know, just to communicate the Word of God and seeing people get it.
Stephen Walker: No.
John Blackmore: And I had a professor. I think he says if you're boring when you preach, you're probably in sin. So yeah. So I just, I think for me. That's what I love. And from the 1st time I preached, and now, and teach, and just
John Blackmore: seeing people get a handle on what the Word of God is a lot of that, probably in my years in France, too, because you had to start with showing the people through apologetics that the Bible is the Word of God, and then understanding and explaining it in a way where people see that it is living word of God. That's what I enjoy
John Blackmore: that answers that.
Stephen Walker: Okay, thank you, sir. So when you think about kind of the the elements in your philosophy of ministry, can you tell me a little bit about some of your philosophy of ministry.
John Blackmore: Well, I would say, and I was thinking about this on my my drive up this morning. And I actually I use my notes. I'd say my number. One thing as a leader of a church is, I've got to take care of that. I have a prayer filled life
John Blackmore: that is continually groaning myself. You know I've been at times in my ministry where you know, and I don't mean to be
John Blackmore: prideful or anything but God's gifted me with a gift to be able to connect with people. But you can't just depend on that. When you're a leader, you know. I just want to be sure that I'm taking care of myself, my personal relationships always growing. Then I'd say, my number one in especially a lead minister role. My number one is to have the Biblical relevant
John Blackmore: sermons that you know. When I present the Gospel it's understood clearly. People can get it. And it's Biblical. I think that's my number one task number 2 would be in a situation where, like at Mcknight, crossings would be that you have other staff members, and especially kind of being there, and having done everything in ministry a little bit to encourage, support, guide them, be a partner with them, so they can do their ministries well, I think you know that
John Blackmore: if you want, like Jesus in that inner circle of those 3, you know that that you know, making sure they know that I'm I'm going to do everything I can to support, encourage, and help them do that. And then I think after that, 3 would probably be making sure I'm tending to the needs of the flock, you know, and I think with the staff, too, and having been on different sides, churches making sure
John Blackmore: every ministry is focused on whatever the leadership you know, eldership leadership sets us. Hey, this is what we're about here at our church, making sure we're keeping our ministries focused on that, that we're not working in different silos, but we're all working together.
John Blackmore: That would, I'd say, as a lead minister would be my primary thing, and then I think
John Blackmore: on that too, knowing that I represent our church to the community, to the other churches.
John Blackmore: And again, from the missionary experience, one. Things that not to our credit in America is our churches don't seem to be able to work well together, you know, and I'm not just talking our local denominations, our brotherhoods. But just in general, there's in a community, especially in a larger community, like where you guys are being able to work across some of those lines on the areas that we can work together on
John Blackmore: and being a positive role in the community organizations and different things like that. So.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: So can I, can I? Explore a couple of things you said. There.
John Blackmore: Sure.
Stephen Walker: So you talk. You mentioned being biblically relevant. Can you kind of, you know? Talk about that a little bit. How you come to being making sure you've been biblically relevant in what you're preaching.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I say, number one, biblically. And I think I said this, I think in my cover letter to you guys, is it seems that you guys have. It's a hard balance, because.
John Blackmore: you know a lot of churches. You know, we adopt a lot of things from the world to attract the people and our attractional churches, and that's good. But you know, so they're relevant. But they might sacrifice a little bit on what it means. The really, the what the Bible clearly teaches in Scripture.
John Blackmore: And so Biblically, I think, is, you know, making sure what we're preaching and teaching is from God's Word. It's not from our traditions. It's not from that, I would say, and it's always best to pick on yourself a little bit.
John Blackmore: probably grew up with a mentality in Restoration churches with just such a high emphasis on baptism that we kind of ignored the grace of God.
Stephen Walker: Is it.
John Blackmore: You know, and not that that baptism is not a necessary part of things, but man, I mean.
John Blackmore: I grew up. We just said we were baptized. We never even used the word. We were saved, and kind of.
Stephen Walker: And.
John Blackmore: As a young man is. Oh, saved! Well they might.
John Blackmore: Will he be, you know.
John Blackmore: I think you know, we can be Biblical, and we got to understand the importance of that. But we got to also realize maybe that might be a little bit of my tradition, you know. Just. But staying Biblical on that, but not de-emphasize man. We're saved by the grace of God. Our faith response includes repentance and baptism, but it's by grace we're saved. So
John Blackmore: so remaining Biblical
John Blackmore: but also not, you know, being relevant to where we are, you know we have to look at. And actually, it was one of the reviews on your church when I began thinking, okay, putting in my resume there that someone had attended your church, and I'm guessing as a person from a homosexual lifestyle. He had come, and he just talked about how awesome and how loving everyone was, and what a great thing it was. But he thought you guys were way too
John Blackmore: conservative and not accepting, you know, and I think some churches really struggle with that.
John Blackmore: You know, being able to really love the people. We say it all the time, you know, hate to send love the center. But I mean, that's that's a hard thing really to do.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: And to remain Biblical, yet loving at the same time that whole thing where Jesus mastered being grace and truth embodied together. So that's what I mean being relevant. You know, we got to be able to understand
John Blackmore: where people are coming from that are walking into our midst, are walking into our lives are part of our lives. I mean, we're in a post-christian world, and they have to see the love of Christ. They have to have that relationship with us. And once we have that, then we can maybe communicate
John Blackmore: what the gospel really says, you know about things. Does that make sense.
Stephen Walker: It does. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Stephen Walker: So why, why are you leaving or have left or not currently in your old position?
John Blackmore: We. We merged together in October of 2023
John Blackmore: Our church, when I had got here, had been through a couple splits, one about 20 years ago, and one right before I arrived in 2016. So it was a very small congregation in a huge building. 23.
John Blackmore: I'm over 23,000 square feet. So we had a huge building and
John Blackmore: We were growing, and we were doing well. There was kind of a a little bit of an old guard that you know we, and especially during Covid, we attracted a lot of people in. But there was still kind of the
John Blackmore: the Old Guard, that you know felt like this is their building, their church. And then, at the same time, when I got here, about 6 months after I got here in 2016, Matt Dudley had started a church in town here, and they had grown incredibly. They were meeting in a I think, a really small building. They were packing in 2 services of 300 people. I knew a lot of people there. I have a pretty good relationship with all the churches here.
John Blackmore: and one day Matt was.
John Blackmore: talk to me at lunch about hey? You ever think about merging churches? You know, you guys have room. They had come from a Southern Baptist, but they're independent, but you know they kind of lean towards a Baptist side of things. And so
John Blackmore: you know, it's 1 of those things I'd never really thought about. So when we started talking about it, we came together what I was thinking when we would come together.
John Blackmore: It took us about 8 month process to do that. That what I could add to that was they were reaching all kinds of people and everybody's church. But you know, you know, and I know we're called not just to baptize people into Christ, but we're called to disciple people.
John Blackmore: man. This would be a good role for me, you know, a little bit on that side where kind of what I feel like my role would be. Since I've done different types of ministries support all those people on staff, and be an encourager, almost like a pastor to the pastors.
John Blackmore: And but the more I got in there the more I saw they really weren't interested in the discipleship angle of things.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: And
John Blackmore: and and it's still, I think, a great church. But I think they'll grow into that where they'll say, Hey, man, we gotta get these people to understand. It's just not one and done, you know. And
John Blackmore: I felt like just my gifts of teaching and preaching weren't being used. I was to be discipleship and missions, and take care of the seniors, and but it was,
John Blackmore: very, very much an attractional based, and focus everything on Sunday rather than that
John Blackmore: getting into each other's lives and doing that. And I just felt like rather than my son's. Still there like I said I got a great relationship with him. I just said, You know, Matt, I just think that I got more to offer.
John Blackmore: Somewhere else rather than be here on staff. So.
John Blackmore: That's kinda that's that's why we left. And then when we stepped back, we took a few months to think, you know, do we? Do we really want to do this again? You know, I mean because I know the effort it takes, you know, to to begin a ministry involved in ministry and do that. And actually, it's just been over this last month. And we started thinking about places and talking to folks. That
John Blackmore: man. Yeah.
John Blackmore: I think God has wants to use me in the preaching, teaching, and leading of a church. And so that's kind of where we're at. That's.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Cause, you know.
John Blackmore: I just do want to add on to there I could feel myself just total transparency. I could feel myself becoming a little bit negative towards the leadership
John Blackmore: towards the pastor. And I just I had been. I've been the victim of that a little bit
John Blackmore: leader, and just have the people sitting in church, folding their arms.
Stephen Walker: You know, and it's like, man. I don't wanna be that guy.
John Blackmore: No, I mean.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: Yeah, so yeah, I don't. Wanna guy like, well, if I was in charge.
John Blackmore: I just I can feel that. And I hate that because the negativity, you know just it's a gangrene in a church, and I thought, you know, it would be better for me just to really support and love them and not have to be in that.
John Blackmore: I'm able to do that. The worship minister at Ridge is dating my niece, and so I totally support him and his ministry. And it's kind of. It's kind of been a little bit different. My son still is there on staff. And so it's a little bit different. So I'm still trying to support everything they're doing, just.
Stephen Walker: Good.
John Blackmore: It just. It wasn't the fit for me, no matter how hard I tried so little bit of that. When David went to slay Goliath.
John Blackmore: you know, Saul said. Hey, here's my armor. Put my armor.
Stephen Walker: No.
John Blackmore: He said, man, I gotta do it my way.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
John Blackmore: Thanks. But no, thanks, brother, yeah, yeah. So I don't know. I hope that explains it.
Stephen Walker: No thanks for being transparent. This this is kind of related to what you're just saying. There, and so, as you think about your former employee first.st
Stephen Walker: How would you think they would describe you like a coworker would describe you.
John Blackmore: probably a huge people person. They would probably.
John Blackmore: I think they would say that I I love attention.
John Blackmore: Yeah, I don't know if that's good or bad, but you know I don't mind being upfront. It's something, and I'll tell you this every time I get up to preach.
John Blackmore: It's, you know, some guys get really nervous. I do get nervous about it, but I always. My prayer is, you know, number one. God, check check my heart. Make sure there's no wicked way in me that Psalm 1, 39, and then
John Blackmore: let me step aside and let you shine through me. You know.
John Blackmore: And and I mean, that's just. You know. I do not mind being upfront. I do not mind, you know.
John Blackmore: doing that so much, but sometimes, and I think it's the older I get, maybe the better. I see that there was a time, probably, in ministry. People were attracted to our churches because of who I was, and that isn't right.
John Blackmore: So I mean, it is something I'm cognizant of, and try to just make sure. Listen. This is this is about the Word of God, if you want to use me, use those gifts, but keep me.
John Blackmore: Keep me to the background, and my wife, my wife sometimes will be there. She'll just do this like it's real it in John.
John Blackmore: You can
John Blackmore: watch her if I have a member preacher, just watch her. She's really good. And when she says, oh, he's going down one of his like. He got a laugh from the audience.
John Blackmore: Yeah, a little cold.
John Blackmore: She's been seeing the thing for about 40 years, so.
Stephen Walker: Yes.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: That's that's what you call a good help, mate.
John Blackmore: Oh, man, she's awesome. I would not be where I would. You love her? Yeah, you you will absolutely. Yeah. Love my wife. Yeah, she's awesome.
Stephen Walker: So how would you best illustrate your leadership skills and people skills.
John Blackmore: I I would say relational but I I
John Blackmore: I I believe, just because of you know
John Blackmore: how I what I've experienced in my own personal life with relationships.
John Blackmore: I love people. I love people to feel good. I love people to. I I love to encourage. And I want people to know, you know staff Church, whoever, no matter what I truly truly care about you and
John Blackmore: you know, sometimes, and it's kind of strange sometimes, and I got great friends in ministry, in in larger churches.
John Blackmore: some of the larger church guys. They have a gift of being able to disconnect themselves from the personal relationship.
John Blackmore: You know a little bit, and they have to, because they're just so many.
John Blackmore: But
John Blackmore: I really like knowing people's story, knowing who they are, how you know what what kind of makes them tick. And then just coming alongside of them and encouraging them, and trying to, you know. Tell them, hey, man, you you ever thought about doing this? This is like you're you're great with people or man, you're, you know. Maybe you don't like being around people. But, man, I wish I could do numbers the way you do numbers. And you know,
John Blackmore: so, okay, that's a a, yeah.
Stephen Walker: So so John, how would you describe your big, biggest weaknesses.
John Blackmore: My biggest weaknesses probably would be just making sure with and and my sons could probably tell you this. I got a pretty big shadow, you know, walking into a room, I think sometimes it's taken, you know.
John Blackmore: yeah, as I don't know if it's cockiness or whatever, but just just being sure that I don't have to be the center of attention. And I'll just go back real quick illustration. My dad, my Dad was like salesman of salesmen, that's all he did his whole life, and it's almost a Blackmore trait. But
John Blackmore: I did see in his latter years here. He really suffered a little bit from
John Blackmore: people being as fuel like when I'm around people. I'm tireless. I love being around people.
John Blackmore: And this is why I said my number. One thing that I think I've learned about myself is, I got to remember my true fuel for my life, and my spirit is my relationship with Christ, not other people.
John Blackmore: You know, and I would say, I have to always be aware of that probably need a quiet guy by me saying, Hey, watch out, John, you know. Fill it in, you know. But you know, just just being aware of that, that there is time. I just read a book, and it's great. I did a sabbatical right. When the churches came together we we took off my wife and I for a month, and it's a emotionally healthy leader and
John Blackmore: great book about slowing down.
John Blackmore: You know this this idea of you know, finding your rest in Christ, you know, making sure you do that, and I mean
John Blackmore: sadly, our American culture, and even, you know, the Ministry Culture of Senior Ministers is not. It's about.
John Blackmore: And it's
John Blackmore: you know, and I love that. It's an adrenaline thing for me. But you know, remember to take back. So I think that hyperactivity, or trying to be the center of everything, would probably be a weakness.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Stephen Walker: So so, John, you had a chance to look at the job description.
John Blackmore: Yes.
Stephen Walker: So what what about the job? Description that that seems like a good fit for you?
John Blackmore: I think the fact that you have a lot of stuff in place is really good. I think your guys approach. I mean, I know, coming from Church of Christ, Acapella, you know restoration movement. We kind of have that. But you guys seem to be
John Blackmore: transgenerational. I you know, multi-generational. Whatever you want to say, and also being in the city. You know where there are different cultures and different ethnic groups, you know. I, 1 of my greatest things being in Poitier. I just remember there was a Sunday where we had probably.
John Blackmore: I know, less than 30 people at church, and we had 11 nationalities.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: And I just.
Stephen Walker: Wow!
John Blackmore: I just love that. And I you know I go to Uganda quite a bit now, and when we go back to France, and when you know, you know, having been a little bit travel around the world. It's just, you know, seeing Christianity through the different cultures and different things like that it's just man that that kind of excited me, you know. I think you guys like I said I and I the balance of Hey, this is a church that's preaching the Gospels, the simple gospel
John Blackmore: clearly, but seems to be relevant, and maybe a little unafraid of pushing the boundaries of maybe how some of us grew up.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: You know.
Stephen Walker: Too.
John Blackmore: To be something a. And you know you're right. Smack Dab in the middle of the city, you know.
John Blackmore: There's a new heights Christian church up in. I think it's Bridgeport in Bridgeton.
John Blackmore: airport. They, you know. We went up there one Sunday, and they do a Spanish and English service at the same time.
John Blackmore: Man that was really cool. We knew some people from St. Louis Christian college that were back. A guy had went to school. His. He's he's from Mexico, and they still minister in Mexico, but his son's a youth minister there, and we got to see them. But you know that was like, Wow, that's cool. I enjoy that. And I think.
John Blackmore: You know
John Blackmore: I mean, if God calls us to a smaller church, where I have to fulfill all the roles. I think I could do that. But, boy, it'd be nice just to be able to right off the bat start in a ministry. There's people I can pour myself into, and maybe yeah.
John Blackmore: you know, save them a little bit of the mistakes, or you know the discouragement that I remember when I faced, you know, have I had a very supportive Senior Minister in my very 1st ministry, and it made all the difference in the world for me.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: So the last question I have you. You alluded to this a couple of times about your missionary experiences.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Would you like to talk a little bit about that.
John Blackmore: Oh, yeah, in fact, this all came about because my sister, Ross Brown's mom.
John Blackmore: Robin is is my oldest sister, and she told me that Ross had
John Blackmore: the church was part of supporting a missionary in in France, and so I texted Ross. I said, Hey, who is it? Where they at, you know, because we are going back to France for 2 weeks in April
John Blackmore: I have a goddaughter there, and she's the daughter of who were Laura and I's best friends. Unfortunately they both passed away so Ocn. Now she's a medical doctor, and she's going to have a baby here in about a month, so we're going over there. But I contacted. I think his name's young Craig young.
John Blackmore: Yeah. And actually, when I contacted him, I asked him, I said, Hey, we're gonna be in France. Could we come down and visit? Because I love.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: When we did our Sabbatical, we hid away down in a little place Airbnb, in Southern France, and hung out, did nothing for a month, my wife and I. I just read, and then we just visited places, because you know, the whole Roman Empire thing, and I saw he was in Marseille, and so I contacted him. And actually he believes we met somewhere in the early nineties.
Stephen Walker: Wow!
John Blackmore: Yeah, I'm like, oh, no kidding. Because when we went there
John Blackmore: the guy who recruited us, Steve Petty, who has passed away since then there was nothing from the Christian churches. There were some small, maybe 6 or 7 churches of Christ, and he had done the two-year internship with the Church of Christ in Lille.
John Blackmore: and so that automatically gave us a little bit of connection. And I remember some guys coming up from the South when we were 1st there, and they put on a seminar, and I don't know if Craig was among them, or whatever. But
John Blackmore: he he knows of us, our our work in there somehow. So we're gonna see him. April 20. Second, we worked out a date.
Stephen Walker: Oh, beautiful!
John Blackmore: But that's something
John Blackmore: I love, you know. And I thought, Wow, the fact that you guys are already connected there, Philippini. I also know, Philip, because I've done some work with sheltering wings.
Stephen Walker: Oh, okay.
Stephen Walker: I I knew he went to church in Saint Louis, and it wasn't again till I was talking to Ross that him and Philip were in the same small group for a while. I'm like.
John Blackmore: You know. So
John Blackmore: so. And you know I spoke a little bit of French with Philip, of course, and that's something that's in your blood. We consider France our second home, because that's kind of one of those things out there on the table to do. We do. We sell it all and retire there and go and help a church in France. I don't know.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
John Blackmore: So so that kind of thing thought, wow! We could still do ministry here and also be a support. You know there's already kind of a tie there. So.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: But I believe I don't know if you guys do a lot of mission trips. That's what I did a lot at Tomoka when I was down in Florida. I was a missions pastor. That's how I got connected with a lot of great guys in Uganda.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: And I. I go over there. I got some pastors. I tried to do pastor training, and I go spend time with the pastors, and then I usually have the team either work with the kids or the teachers, or we took a group of men over there, and we put in a bunch of water tanks for them cistern system so they wouldn't.
John Blackmore: you know, go to the well all the time. So, anyway. But yeah, so I love.
Stephen Walker: In your DNA. John, I can tell you. Got you're very passionate about.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: And it's so cool that you connected with Craig Young and gonna get a chance to visit with him and have a connection to Philip. That's all very, very cool.
John Blackmore: Yeah, yeah. So I just that's kind of one of the things we were thinking, you know. You know, we do have 2 sons here, and we're, you know, we want to go where God wants us to go, and we're willing to do that. But we thought, Wow!
John Blackmore: That would be nice if he would take us to a place that we'd still be around some of the family here, and yet still be able to do some mission work. And I think nothing.
John Blackmore: I think. And I think we're at this stage like in our time and in our culture, where we have to understand, we have to raise up our own missionaries and ministers from our churches. You know. I know St. Louis Christian College closed. Cincinnati closed. Lincoln closed. You know. That's where I got my master's from. My wife got her degree from Lincoln, you know, and we never thought just Moberly would be the one left, you know. But.
John Blackmore: Yeah, they're struggling. But I think.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: You know, churches are not challenging. Their young people are not growing their young people, I mean, and I'll revert back off of me off to one thing I saw. I looked at what you're doing with your kids, and the philosophy of
John Blackmore: the job of the church is to come along the side the parents, because the parents are.
John Blackmore: and one question decipher.
Stephen Walker: Amen. Yes.
John Blackmore: And I saw that. And my wife says, because we, when we were at Sullivan, our children's minister, that's our exact philosophy. Colleen, who's a great friend of ours.
John Blackmore: He was our children's minister, and
John Blackmore: we're not gonna disciple your kids. We're gonna help you disciple your kids.
Stephen Walker: Yes, yes.
John Blackmore: The job. My job is to equip. You know the leadership is to equip the saints to do the work so.
Stephen Walker: Yes, yes, absolutely.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Stephen Walker: So you have questions for me. John.
John Blackmore: Well, how do you? I I guess. My number. One thing is, what do you think the role of
John Blackmore: do you guys use the word pastor, minister, preacher, what? What do you guys use for our lead minister?
Stephen Walker: Lead lead minister is is how we describe this role.
John Blackmore: Okay, when I came here, and when I was younger it was kinda I don't know what church you grew up in the churches. I grew up in. It was kind of like the elders.
John Blackmore: and then the preacher, you know, and it was almost like a a power struggle between them.
John Blackmore: I view, probably not right away, because the congregation doesn't know me. But I'd like to be considered part of the eldership team. You know that it isn't a you know that we work together. And I you can talk to any of the elders. I I always, you know.
John Blackmore: here, here's where we need to go. I'm a leader visionary. But if I'm sitting in a room and I got 4 guys that are the spiritual leaders of the church, saying, Hey, maybe we should rethink that. Or maybe we need to pray about that. Then you know, I better listen to that. So I think we need to work as a team together, and I don't know what your guys relationship with your lead minister is.
Stephen Walker: No, it's exactly what you way you describe it. So
Stephen Walker: Jeff Kreider, the the one that's recently retired like last August he was very much a part of our leadership team. He was he was in all the elder meetings, and for many years he would he will actually set the agenda for the meeting.
Stephen Walker: And so we. We did transition away from that to where we where we rotate the agenda now and so we use that model. But but he his voice was very important to all of us, because
Stephen Walker: he had a perspective that we did not have, you know, you know, because especially then, a lot of the guys were, you know, the role of elders. But they also had a full time position outside of that role, and Jeff, full-time position was as the lead minister.
Stephen Walker: So he was, you know. People were more naturally connected to him in some areas and did some of the elders, and so he would have insight
Stephen Walker: to provide with. You know what was going on with the flock that really helped us to be better shepherds.
Stephen Walker: and so so we appreciated that part in terms of vision setting. That was that was a collaboration between the elders and and the Lead Minister and the Lead Minister pretty much laid out the sermon series.
Stephen Walker: and he would, you know, run it by us, you know, and or we will have recommendations for a sermon series. If we saw some things that was going on with the body that we wanted to address from the pulpit. You know that we, you know, we'll offer that so it was very much partnership collaboration between the 2.
John Blackmore: Yeah. And I think you know, using the word partnership, I really we we changed a little bit.
John Blackmore: Of the the vocabulary. I guess you'd say at Sullivan Christian Church. We we quit using the word membership and use partnership because for everybody, because kind of the old yeah membership says, what are my privileges? And I'm dealing with, you know.
John Blackmore: Traditional churches. What am I? Am IA voting member? And you know.
Stephen Walker: No.
John Blackmore: And all that membership says, Okay, what are my privileges? What are my benefits? Where partnership says? What is my role?
John Blackmore: You know that the.
Stephen Walker: No, it's good.
John Blackmore: Fellowship, you know. It's like, No, I'm a partner at the church. A partner means you got skin in the game, and everybody that is part of the body is a partner. You should have a role.
John Blackmore: And but you know, so that's good. I think we're online there because,
John Blackmore: you know, on preaching I am a verse by verse, Guy, I think, like just during this time off, I've been just looking through the Gospel, John. I've never preached through the Gospel, John. Now I preach many sermons from it, but I'm just like you know he sets it up at the end. Is, you know all this has been written, so you may believe that Jesus is a Christ, and by believing have life. That's the goal of the gospel, John. So I've kind of went back. Is that the theme like what he invites us to is this abundant life and
John Blackmore: trying to so preaching wise? I believe that, you know. That's why I said. You know, besides taking care of myself spiritually and growing spiritually. Preaching is my number one contribution to the body
John Blackmore: that it has to be. It's just amazing to me when you're preaching through how it just seems like God just puts the right sermon on the right Sunday, and things like that. And then, you know, once in a while.
John Blackmore: like you, said the elders said, Man, we really need to address this issue here. You know this issue here and say, Okay, let's take a couple week, break and address it. But I love preaching through Scripture. You know. It took me 2 years. I just preached through Hebrews, and I just finished up Galatians when churches merged, and
John Blackmore: you know, and Galatians was all about the legalism, you know they had, and it was. It was a good when I started the book. I had no idea we would be merging by the Sunday after I finished it. But because a lot of our people were dealing with the kind of the legalism, you know. And unfortunately, I think we did. We lost some of our older members because they just they felt like it was their church, and they built it.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
John Blackmore: You know, and I was like no man. I I think that's not what Scripture says.
John Blackmore: Think it's his church in him. But anyway.
John Blackmore: you put some bricks and mortar together, but you didn't the church, but anyway.
John Blackmore: so but that's it.
John Blackmore: what is your what is your process?
John Blackmore: in this and timeline of? Okay, you're gonna find your your next guy.
Stephen Walker: So the process is this is the 1st step of the journey which you and I taking. We usually have another guy that's in that does this in collaboration with me. But he's out for a while, he so and what we usually do then, and is that he and I will make a decision on. Hey? What's what next steps are, but what we're doing now in lieu of that is that
Stephen Walker: your your video will be sent to the the remainder of the elders. They'll look at it, and then we'll all weigh in, and then you know. Then I'll get back with you on next steps.
John Blackmore: Okay. Alright.
John Blackmore: I was gonna ask one other question. There.
John Blackmore: I I don't think it's that important. So and then
John Blackmore: Then after that. Then there, I I suppose there's a time we can all sit down and then just meet together.
Stephen Walker: Yes, so so
Stephen Walker: thanks for help for the clarification. So what happens if we continue down this road? What will be the next step is that we'll do another one of these with the remainder group of the elders. So maybe 4 to 6 people on interview with a separate set of questions, and then we will
Stephen Walker: From there again we'll evaluate all of that, and then we'll say, Okay.
Stephen Walker: is, what are those next steps? And sometimes that next step would very well be, hey, let's bring them in.
Stephen Walker: you know, to meet the the congregation lock, you know, in person, or or you know. Maybe we need to.
Stephen Walker: Say, this may not be a good fit. So those are the 2 kind of things that can happen.
John Blackmore: Okay? And I wanna make sure, did I send you letters or recommendations from people? Yeah, okay.
Stephen Walker: Did. Yes, you did.
John Blackmore: You've got all those okay. Cause I had a couple of other guys write some, and I'm just like, I don't know. I mean whatever you need, and and
John Blackmore: everybody here. I I have told Matt that you know that I I haven't got to talk to him directly about this, but he did write me one letter of recommendation for a a teaching position. But
John Blackmore: you know we weighed those things out, and I just. I just thought, man, you know I could do that. I know I could do that. But I just don't feel like that's where God's leading us. I want to do ministry. But you know, if you guys wanted to to contact him, you you're you're more than free. He's.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
John Blackmore: You know so and and anyone that I've ever worked with, you know you're you're more than free to contact all them. Or if you want other letters, or whatever you know.
Stephen Walker: Okay, well, thank you.
John Blackmore: Yeah, yeah. So now on staff. And I guess maybe this might be my alright you have. Who do you have full time on staff right now?
Stephen Walker: Right now. Full time we have
Stephen Walker: youth minister full time on staff.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: And then we have a like a
Stephen Walker: an office person where she does a lot of the financing and lot of various other things that's on staff full time.
Stephen Walker: What's on the horizon is that we're we had a a children family children's minister that was full time, but he? He actually went to work in Dallas.
John Blackmore: -
Stephen Walker: So we're we're looking for that person to be a full time
Stephen Walker: on staff. And then we have part time. We have a worship leader. That's part. Time on staff.
John Blackmore: Oh, okay, very good. And then would be my responsibility would be to like, take care of the staff on the Daily.
John Blackmore: because, like here how it worked. We had a worship. We had children's and a youth minister, and you know I was kind of it was kind of like I'm in charge of the day to day things making sure that. And then I was kind of the go between a little bit with the the eldership and the staff.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
John Blackmore: When there were struggles, they kind of said, Okay, you need to talk to, you know, colleen, about this or that, you know, just responsibilities, because, you know.
John Blackmore: we we would always start, you know, with, just Hey, let's. And sometimes it was real quick. But we always made sure we started with, what's everybody's schedule this week? You know. What are your highs and lows of Sunday? What do I need to be praying for you? And then then I would try to meet with them individually, you know, just to make sure they're doing well, because I just shepherd to the other, you know.
John Blackmore: on a daily basis, but.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, that that could very well be we. We're actually open to that role.
Stephen Walker: Jeff, that was a role that Jeff had. And we so right now? We fill in some of the void with that, you know
Stephen Walker: role. So the next person I mean he may have ex exactly where you described it.
Stephen Walker: Or maybe some kind of hybrid part of that, you know.
John Blackmore: Right.
Stephen Walker: So so it could it could be. It could be exactly what you describe it, where everybody's just reporting to him. And and he's you know he's kind of the leader of all of that, or he can have a piece of that. And then, you know, somebody else has the other piece. I'm I'm fulfilling part of that role now, but I'm on a you know. My, my, my job has an expiration date.
Stephen Walker: so
Stephen Walker: so it depends on, you know what's needed with the next person, you know, in terms of the role.
John Blackmore: Okay? And then one other on on the eldership. Are you guys? How do you?
John Blackmore: I'll explain how we did it. And then you maybe share how you did it. And I'm just saying, this is where again, from some of my experiences growing up in the church kind of based more from our government than the Bible. Sometimes there was, you know, elders were voted in and out all the time, and so
John Blackmore: we took approach. The eldership like the last group of elders we had, we brought on 2 guys, and our, our, the elders and myself would say, Hey, these 2 guys seem to meet the requirements of being an elder.
John Blackmore: We went to them we met with them. We met with them and their wife, and you know the wife's roles, you know, and I love. How you guys got shepherding couples, man. That was one thing right away. My wife said, oh, they got it.
John Blackmore: I do like it or not.
John Blackmore: Yeah, yeah, like it or not, you're just recognizing a reality that's been there forever, anyway. so we would talk to them and say, Would you be willing to come on.
John Blackmore: and just for a year to spend with the eldership.
John Blackmore: you know, like almost an eldership internship. And then, at the end of that time. If they still want to be an elder, we put it to the congregation for a confirmation. And again, it's a little word, but it means a lot, not a vote in or out. And if you voted not, and that was only after we met. Yeah, Sam, he's going to be a great elder, you know, and
John Blackmore: they would be confirmed by the congregation, and if someone in the congregation didn't think they needed to be an elder, they had to give a Biblical reason why they should be an elder, not because, you know, you know, if they don't have a good. Maybe there's something out there that we didn't know. So that's that's kind of how we did it. And they were confirmed. And we actually had some people that said, Well, I have this issue, and then we let that we let like. We'll just call him Sam. We let Sam
John Blackmore: go to those people and talk to them, and then they came back and said, Okay, Sam's aware that sometimes, you know, he's out doing his business. He's not always the nicest guy in the world.
John Blackmore: It really helped him understand that you gotta have a good reputation out there and here. And then they came back in. They said, Yeah, we we understand it. And they solved a problem, because before, if he had a vote he would have made it 90 to 2.
John Blackmore: Had 2 people that never really respected him as an elder, so.
John Blackmore: But I mean, so I and do, you guys have terms? Then, as elders.
Stephen Walker: We don't have terms right now. But what you describe is kind of the process. We use a SIM similar process, not identical. So right. Now we have 2 guys that are in the look that'll internship you described. They they come to the elder elders meeting. They sit in. They see what's going on. So they get a chance to
Stephen Walker: get a feel of what's going on with the elders meeting. But we don't put like, hey, a year on it because we had we've we've been using this process for a few years, and we've had one guy that took more than a year before he felt like it was ready. But he's a phenomenal elder
Stephen Walker: right now, you know, but so we don't. We try not to put a a time clock on the guy and we don't rush it, you know. But but we don't. We won't. We won't also say, Okay, you gotta make a decision by this, this timeline. And then once
Stephen Walker: we're comfortable and they're comfortable. If it looks like it's a you know, this. God is calling them to this role, then we bring them before the congregation. Let the congregation have a say so, and you know, and even throughout the process
Stephen Walker: the congregation can always weigh in on different things, you know, even before that, you know that time is up. They can. They? They can weigh in on different things. So I, and we're refining that process right now, because some things we realize that we probably need to do a little differently, you know, to maybe even engage the congregation earlier on
Stephen Walker: before. You know, we're ready to install the the elder, you know, in training. So we're making some, you know, some refinements to the process, but it's pretty much the way you described it.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
John Blackmore: Okay. One final question. I'll let you know the thing that. And
John Blackmore: this came from. I alluded to it. I love love love, church history. I love history in general. That's probably what led me into it, probably outside of the church Bible and everything else. When I was a little kid, the movie Ben-hur.
Stephen Walker: Oh, yeah.
John Blackmore: When I saw wow! Jesus really did exist, you know, I mean in that, you know I but so I have this love of history, and I would just say the one thing that
John Blackmore: and I don't know how to do this. Maybe you guys can help me do this. Is that the the forgotten.
John Blackmore: I don't know. Practice of the church seems to be prayer.
John Blackmore: corporate prayer, and prayer in our lives, and I don't know if that's because I spent a lot of time in France, that's what. When Craig Young said they bought a monastery. I thought, man.
John Blackmore: As of for that whole abstinence thing. I would have been a great monk, but you know.
John Blackmore: But it's just there's do. Do you guys have a regular time of prayer as a leadership, or I mean outside of the business and all the other stuff, because I just feel like that is something even in my own life. If I say, I'll go back to probably a bigger weakness in my braggadocious personality, or whatever would be
John Blackmore: the lack of this consistent prayer. That's something I just, you know God has put on me through this time. That book, emotionally healthy leader, talks a lot about that Sabbatical that time that still time before God. So where are you guys on that? I mean, that's.
Stephen Walker: That's a great question. We can definitely do a better job of spending time in prayer. So
Stephen Walker: we held our elders meetings.
Stephen Walker: One typically one of the 1st things on the agenda are people.
John Blackmore: -oh.
Stephen Walker: The majority of the time. And so so we'll talk about people issues. And then.
Stephen Walker: before we get into any business, we'll spend time praying.
John Blackmore: Go.
Stephen Walker: About about the people. And then, you know, because that that's really what we're called to do right. And then we can't separate sometimes people from business, because how you know some of the things that we call business relate to effectively ministering and taking care of people as well. So we're not trying to say that they're not connected because they very well are connected, but helping understand the flock will help us understand how to prioritize some of the needs of the business, too.
Stephen Walker: you know. So we. So we we try to let that guide us to a certain extent.
Stephen Walker: and then not not always perfect at that. And so we
Stephen Walker: periodically we will do things like fast and pray with the congregation. You know. Right now I'll share this with you. We have.
Stephen Walker: We introduced this to the congregation a little while ago. You can't read it. I'll read it to you. It's it's a
Stephen Walker: it's the Congregational prayers, and we've asked the congregation to be praying about these things.
Stephen Walker: Just praise and thankfulness for our Lord and Savior.
Stephen Walker: Praying for the next children, family minister, praying for missions.
Stephen Walker: The next generation is is another thing, praying for unity, you know, not only in the body but our community.
Stephen Walker: Praying that we can be a spiritual influence in our neighborhoods.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Walker: And then praying for family and friends and members who've experienced loss. And so we provided this list to the kind. Then we left a couple lines open, just in case a person has some other personal things that he or she wanted to add to the prayer. And so so that that is probably something we did about
Stephen Walker: oh, month and a half ago that we and we just when we did, we did that we spent some time fasting and praying about in particular. The journey that we're on now.
John Blackmore: Yeah, for the.
Stephen Walker: Minister. So so that's so. But to answer your question is that definitely need to be more.
Stephen Walker: spend more time in prayer than we are right now, I would say, is probably the fair answer to that question.
John Blackmore: Yeah, that's something I would love to be part of a a leadership, a a group of guys that would hold me accountable to that
John Blackmore: because it's something, you know. We we kind of say sometimes. But then, you know, we get busy, you know, and if I would come there it'd be man. I got to get to know everybody, gotta you know. Do this and all that. And you know there, there has been a little bit of this this time that we're just taking our time. I like to say I don't want to run ahead of the Holy Spirit on this.
John Blackmore: Want to lag behind. I'm trying to stay in step with that, and, you know, make sure that happens. One last thing I just thought of when you mentioned loss of family I have.
John Blackmore: I just obtained my funeral director's license. While I was working at the church I became really good friends with the lead, the funeral director here he came to Sullivan the same time I did, and he runs the funeral home as a ministry. So I did an apprenticeship while I was full time with them. And
John Blackmore: in part of that. And I noticed you guys had it on your website grief share. I've led grief share for the last 4 or 5 years. It's been a tremendous outreach to the community. Especially I was the guy called in most of the time when a church, when someone didn't have a church family.
John Blackmore: I kind of did a lot of the the. I did a lot of the funerals for the unchurched, and one of the things I noticed is, we live in Sullivan, and probably the same way where you guys are at is there's 2 worlds. There's the church world, and there's the unchurched world, because when I do
John Blackmore: the unchurched I'd rarely see someone
John Blackmore: that is from a church. There.
Stephen Walker: And then.
John Blackmore: I would do a funeral for someone in our congregation, or maybe someone in another church that practice. They're all Christians, and I thought it was really bizarre to me that God used this ministry in the funeral home for me to see the evangelism aspects of just in anything but grief shares an awesome, awesome program to deal with grief. And I'd love to be involved in.
John Blackmore: I I continued that program, even though I resigned from the church. I finished that up in the end of December. There, and now I've got 4 ladies that have been through a couple of times with me, that I'm handing the baton off to them to continue to lead that ministry, because it's it's very effective. So.
Stephen Walker: It, is it? We haven't done a full session in a couple several years, but we've had
Stephen Walker: couple of sessions of, you know, the holiday session.
Stephen Walker: You know, and so how to survive in the holidays. And it's interesting that you bring this up for a couple reasons. One is you. You're absolutely right. Is that the community we had
Stephen Walker: probably, you know, 12 to 17 people at each one of our sessions, and and and the overall majority of those people from the community. Right? They were.
John Blackmore: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Know outside. So it was. It was. It was a great way to minister to people in general. Yeah. And then just recently
Stephen Walker: got me thinking about, you know, getting another session started is that we have what we call a next steps class, where people come in and visiting, and they want to learn a little bit more about who we are and why we believe what we believe. And so the most recent next steps class we had. There was a there's a lot of pain and grief in that group.
Stephen Walker: and so so that, you know, got me thinking about, hey? We need a session, and so
Stephen Walker: so we we will probably be thinking really long and hard about doing something. Probably.
Stephen Walker: you know, late late summer, maybe fall. You know the class.
John Blackmore: I'd be definitely something, whatever way it goes. If I'm around here and you're doing something like that. Let me know, because I I have been through that our last session. I had 6 families in that session in this little town. In this area. 6 of them.
John Blackmore: their son, had committed suicide.
Stephen Walker: Oh, my God!
John Blackmore: Guys from 18 to 45.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, it's families affected by that.
Stephen Walker: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
John Blackmore: Suicide, you know, is that's heavy. But you know
John Blackmore: those are the darkest times that God can. You know, people's lives aren't open to the gospel until man, they hit that bottom. And you know there's nothing worse than that. So I still meet with a guy regularly. He's just still struggling with his son committing suicide and
John Blackmore: get together just he's I. I actually got to baptize him into Christ not too long ago. So he wasn't even a believer at the beginning. So.
Stephen Walker: Oh!
John Blackmore: But anyway, that's something I would probably investigate. Up there, too, is find a local funeral home and talk to them about. I have this experience, you know, and part of it it was. It's a real weird way to think. You know how God has used the like. The the loud evangelist missionary to walk into that. But it is, it's absolutely and
John Blackmore: they've asked me to help them out in this in between time till I figure out what I'm doing when I grow up.
John Blackmore: I have the same problem.
John Blackmore: Yeah, no man, we, that's it. It's just a short time. So alrighty, that's all I got. Man, I really appreciate meeting you. I hope we get to see some other time. And hello to all the other guys looking forward to talking to you guys, too, and I'll be praying that God guides this.
Stephen Walker: Gotcha. Okay, can I close this out with a friend.
John Blackmore: Oh, I'd love it! Thank you.
Stephen Walker: Heavenly Father. We thank you for this day, and it's just wonderful as we look outside and just see your creation in so many various ways in terms of how you provide for nature.
Stephen Walker: You know, by bringing weather conditions that allow things to grow, father, and just amazing how, when the weather's cold. Your creation goes dormant, you know, and nature goes dormant, but it still survives.
Stephen Walker: What a what a wonderful god you are! Because we know this advice, because in the spring we can just see the beginning of the creation coming back alive again. So, father, we thank you for that, and just your handprint is all over so many things. Just one example where your presence is felt. Lord and father, we thank you for our time, together with John, and we just ask that you help us to make the decision that will build the kingdom.
Stephen Walker: We want to be about building your kingdom, father, we want to be people that step aside and not put ourselves ahead of what your plans are. We just pray for you. Make it clear to us as we take those next steps what your plan is, and that's where we want to be. That's where we find great comfort. That's where we find peace. And that's where we want to be in that place. Lord, we just ask
Stephen Walker: that you be with us there. We thank you for time together today, and thank you for giving the opportunity to meet John and spend time with him, and just hear about his story, and we just ask Lord that
Stephen Walker: continue to bless his family, and and all the wonderful things that are going on with him in terms of his mission in France, and at various other places, and
Stephen Walker: his sons and father and his wife. We just just ask a blessing on them as well. We pray all this in your name. Amen.
John Blackmore: Man.
Stephen Walker: Alright!
John Blackmore: Alrighty!
Stephen Walker: Alright. See you later.
John Blackmore: See you later. Let me let me tell you a little story about Ross, my nephew there. When when I started dating Laura, I brought her back to Newton, and and Ross was just the cutest little kid.
John Blackmore: Then he found out I was gonna marry her, and he got really mad because he thought Laura was his girlfriend.
John Blackmore: I think he was about 4 years
John Blackmore: years old, or something, so, anyway, you can give him a hard time about that he did. He was the cutest little kid, and Lord just loved him.
John Blackmore: and he he got picked off so.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, man, if you ever need to give him.
John Blackmore: Role, I understand. Yeah.
John Blackmore: Need to give him a hard time. You got my permission.
Stephen Walker: All right. Appreciate that.
John Blackmore: Alrighty! Alright! God bless pleasure! Meeting you alright!
John Blackmore: Alright! Bye-bye.