Stephen Walker: Great alright. And then I'm gonna ask you to.
Stephen Walker: All right, Jeremy, get us started with the grill, brother.
Jeremy Marshall: All right.
Jeremy Marshall: loving and gracious Father in heaven. We thank you for this day. We thank you that your mercies are new. Every morning.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: God. I thank you for your faithfulness to us and to your church.
Jeremy Marshall: Throughout our lives and throughout the the history of your church. I thank you specifically for the work that you're doing and have already done there at night crossing. And I I pray that we know your will is going to be done.
Jeremy Marshall: and we trust in you, and we're leaning into the future that you already hold
Jeremy Marshall: in Christ's name. We pray, Amen.
Stephen Walker: Hey, man, so hey? Tell me a little bit about your connection to Ross.
Jeremy Marshall: So Ross and I were actually I was his ra at freed Hardman.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: So we we lived on the 3rd floor of the Pharaoh dormitory together probably 20 to, you know, ish years ago, you know around that time. So I was. I was Ross's Ra. But we've we've got all those. I I like to call them ugly baby pictures from our early.
Jeremy Marshall: you know.
Jeremy Marshall: I I came into free a little older. I was 21 when I started. There.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: So. It. It was kind of funny. It's kind of like I naturally went into that Ra role because I was a little older than the other guys, but still within their age range.
Jeremy Marshall: And so I was probably 22, and Ross was probably 18 when I met him.
Stephen Walker: Okay. Okay. Alright. Good.
Jeremy Marshall: So so we we do. We do go back and
Jeremy Marshall: you know since I was an Ra. I think the the worst thing that Ross ever would have might have seen me do, because I, you know. And once again, by the time I came to freed, I had finished selling my wild oats, and I was like, I'm sold out for Jesus. There was this one night
Jeremy Marshall: where Bobby Mays. God rest his soul! I don't know if you need. Are you familiar with Jennifer Gerhart, Jennifer, and Justin Gerhardt and Holy Ghost stories.
Stephen Walker: I'm not.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay. They're A, they're a church of Christ related. Podcast but Jennifer's brother, Bobby, was was one of my one of my guys on my floor, and we found this shopping cart that the cleaning ladies would keep in a in a closet to like have cleaning supplies in.
Jeremy Marshall: and we emptied out the shopping cart, and we put. We put elbow and knee pads and a helmet on Bobby, and we we took a couple of unused mattresses and put them on the down. You know the the end of the halls, and we would get a running start and then let go and let Bobby kind of fly into the
Jeremy Marshall: exactly.
Jeremy Marshall: But Bobby, unfortunately died in a car accident about an about an hour from home at Christmas.
Jeremy Marshall: And it was. It was
Jeremy Marshall: I was, of course, since I was I was his Ra. I was one of the 1st people on campus to find out.
Jeremy Marshall: And
Jeremy Marshall: so that that was rough. I often wonder, you know, 22 years later, like, what would Bobby be doing right now?
Jeremy Marshall: He was one of those guys who was
Jeremy Marshall: who was just full of of zest for life. You know.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: He sounded very adventurous as well.
Jeremy Marshall: Yes.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, unless you didn't have a choice unless you and Ross and give him a choice. That would be the.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah, yeah. You know, Ross was. Ross was not as adventurous. He was. He was, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: he was. He was a little bit more conventional.
Jeremy Marshall: But always, always a good guy.
Jeremy Marshall: He was one of those kids. I never I never had problems. I never had to. I never had to say, Hey, stop doing that or anything, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: So.
Stephen Walker: Well, that's that's thank you for sharing that. I'll just jump in with the 1st question.
Stephen Walker: So, Jeremy, in your career to this point.
Stephen Walker: What are you most proud of?
Jeremy Marshall: I think the the thing that I'm most proud of
Jeremy Marshall: is actually, and I'll get back to this later. The thing that I had the most pain associated with
Jeremy Marshall: is the work that I did with the church in California.
Jeremy Marshall: When I when I 1st came, and I wasn't even I wasn't even trying out. I I came to fill in when their preacher left
Jeremy Marshall: and
Jeremy Marshall: After I preach. They're like, Hey, we want you to try out. I'm like, Oh, okay.
Stephen Walker: It.
Jeremy Marshall: It's funny how God works those things out.
Stephen Walker: Yes, it is.
Jeremy Marshall: And
Jeremy Marshall: When I 1st came there were less than 50 members.
Jeremy Marshall: most of whom were over 50 years old.
Stephen Walker: -
Jeremy Marshall: And they had had to sell their building.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And we're actually renting back part of the building.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: To still meet in.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And I and and I the phrase I used when I when we were going through some things to to kind of grow and change was guys, we're sharecroppers on land we used to own we can't.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: You know.
Jeremy Marshall: In
Jeremy Marshall: growing up in Alabama from I was 1st generation off the farm. That was the kind of language I understood.
Jeremy Marshall: And in in in the Lodi stocked in California area as a farming area. So I was contextualizing it for them. So
Jeremy Marshall: long. Story short,
Jeremy Marshall: Over the course of about
Jeremy Marshall: 3 years I had built it up to where? Well, I say, God had built it up through me.
Jeremy Marshall: I like to. I was talking to Ross the other day, I said, this is not my my charming good looks or my winsome personality.
Jeremy Marshall: but we had we had gotten to whereby we we'd gotten more up to the 80 to 90 average
Jeremy Marshall: attendance range. So almost almost doubled.
Stephen Walker: Yep.
Jeremy Marshall: And in. So when I came in summer, 2,015. By by April of 2019, we had purchased new building and moved into it.
Stephen Walker: Good!
Stephen Walker: Wow!
Jeremy Marshall: And and we didn't have elders when I got there. We had elders. By that point.
Jeremy Marshall: so I I you know. I I kind of. I kind of revitalized that I was. I was instrumental to revitalizing it.
Jeremy Marshall: And
Jeremy Marshall: You know the the reason. I think that I say, that's my most pain is that is that after after about 3 years, you know, we didn't have elders when I got there, and we did have elders, and these were all elders that you know, I helped appoint right?
Jeremy Marshall: It just it wasn't. It wasn't working out anymore.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And and I and I've talked to other ministers who've helped through similar transitions. And they said, That's not uncommon.
Jeremy Marshall: I mean, it's it's really funny while they, while they were letting me go, one of the elders was like, Yeah, I was looking around here last Sunday, and I go. Well, that person wouldn't be here if Jeremy wasn't here, and that person wouldn't be here.
Jeremy Marshall: Then why are you letting me go?
Jeremy Marshall: But but you know God, God worked that out very providentially. And
Jeremy Marshall: you know. I I had.
Jeremy Marshall: I had job interviews, you know, ministry interviews lined up within the month.
Jeremy Marshall: and and it. And it was about a was just over a 3 month transition, which is really, when you think about when you hear about ministers, you know, between jobs, it's actually pretty.
Stephen Walker: That's we've been on this journey for a while, so I can appreciate that in terms.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah.
Stephen Walker: Search, and so I can appreciate that it takes a while to find the right fit, and not only
Stephen Walker: the right fit for us as a congregation, but also the right fit for the preacher in terms of.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay.
Stephen Walker: How he see himself and his giftedness and his passion right? But those are, you know, things that have to align well and like you said. It's it's the Holy Spirit that bring those things together in ways that make them work.
Stephen Walker: build, kingdom.
Jeremy Marshall: Absolutely, I mean, and that's, I think.
Jeremy Marshall: Did you grow up in churches of Christ?
Stephen Walker: No, I came into the church. I I guess my most of my adult life. I was in my early twenties 23 ish when I came along Church of Christ, my background was a little different. Before that.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay, so I'm like, either 5th or 6th generation. And I forget. And for a long time the Holy Spirit was so neglected
Jeremy Marshall: in in our fellowship.
Jeremy Marshall: but you know, when you look at it, you know Paul talks about the fellowship or the communion of the Holy Spirit in a Second Corinthians, and I don't think that we understand just how much
Jeremy Marshall: we rely on the Spirit to hold us together as individuals, and also to hold us together in creative tension as churches.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, wow. So
Stephen Walker: that's so that's so true, I mean it's it's about really, God's kingdom and I love James, he, he writes a lot about how to be.
Stephen Walker: You know, part of a cohesive community, right? And.
Jeremy Marshall: And.
Stephen Walker: How to deal with conflict, because we, you know, we are all going to have a little bit of conflict and disagreement from time to time. And so those lessons are there for a reason.
Stephen Walker: hey? As you were describing your your early experience at the church, what are one or 2 things that you think attributed to the growth that you described.
Jeremy Marshall: Well, one thing in in the case of that church is that
Jeremy Marshall: there's a little bit of a different situation with that church, but I think these kind of things can apply right across the board
Jeremy Marshall: is that I had to do some outreach to previous members who had been.
Stephen Walker: Hurt from previous leadership.
Jeremy Marshall: And convince them. Hey?
Jeremy Marshall: I'm I'm not like that.
Jeremy Marshall: And it's it's safe to come back.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: But I think here's here's the big thing, Steven.
Jeremy Marshall: Is that help me develop now? I didn't. I didn't coin this phrase, but it helped me sort of develop this as a way to think about how you deal with people.
Jeremy Marshall: In the church, because we're all come. We're all bringing baggage right, whether church or not, even when you're dealing with people who are unchurched or de-churched, we're all bringing baggage. So this phrase is the gospel plus safety plus time.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And I'm I'm very intentional about
Jeremy Marshall: those 3 elements. When I'm when I'm dealing
Jeremy Marshall: with with people, whether they are members of the Church already, or whether they are people that I'm trying to help get into a relationship with Christ, or they're new believers, right? That applies for me across the board. And the reason I say that's because the gospel is the only thing that has the power to save and transform. I always say the gospel is what makes disciples and shapes disciples.
Jeremy Marshall: No.
Jeremy Marshall: Safety is you create a church, environment, that is safe for people to struggle
Jeremy Marshall: that is safe for and another level, that safety that is safe for people to not be abused. A big passion of mine is making sure that churches are safeguarded against predators abusers. Right? You create that safe environment. And in time, right? Because what we realize when you think about okay, there's the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Right? Well, I don't. I don't go plant the orange, and then tomorrow I've got a fully formed arm orange tree.
Jeremy Marshall: So you you have to. You have to make sure
Jeremy Marshall: that you. You build in time
Jeremy Marshall: and and you're not. You're not looking always for instant results.
Stephen Walker: You're right.
Jeremy Marshall: You know I'm I'm I'm I'm looking at
Jeremy Marshall: how God is working in a person over time, and a lot of times when you're when you're watching from the outside, you can see those transformations beginning to happen before they do.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: And it's and it's really cool to see because then you can point it out to them when they're having times where they need assurance, right?
Jeremy Marshall: So,
Jeremy Marshall: yeah, I mean, that's that's something that working with people in in different different kind of situations of spiritual development has really hit home to me like I said I didn't come up with that 3 point Maxim.
Jeremy Marshall: But it. It showed me how clearly you know I needed to adopt this and be intentional about it. In all of my interactions with people.
Stephen Walker: Well, I like to explore that a little bit more, you know, later on. But I really like that. Thank you for sharing
Stephen Walker: So, hey? Tell us a little bit. Tell me a little bit about your experience, preaching and teaching.
Jeremy Marshall: So at the church in California. I was.
Jeremy Marshall: I mean, I was like kind of everything.
Jeremy Marshall: And I, you know I so I was preaching every Sunday. I was teaching every Sunday I was teaching the Tuesday evening class. That was our midweek class. We couldn't get Wednesday, because the other church we were running from already had.
Jeremy Marshall: Let me think here,
Jeremy Marshall: And and and then that was that was on top of. I made the bulletin every week I sent out all the emails. We didn't have anybody else right? I met with a worship team to plan worship. Early on. I did all the worship planning. Early on. I even led worship. I would lead singing, and then go into the pulpit to preach. That's how that's how right like
Jeremy Marshall: bare bones it was@firstst
Jeremy Marshall: Now my approach to to preaching. There's a couple of ways that you can look at this, and I've done it a couple of different ways. One
Jeremy Marshall: is that I is that I I use. You know this is might be a naughty word.
Jeremy Marshall: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: But I use electionary
Jeremy Marshall: sometimes. That's what I did for the 1st 3 years that I was in California, and I'll tell you why. One
Jeremy Marshall: it you get. You get whole Bible preaching that way right.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: A lot of times. Preachers have areas in Scripture where they're kind of comfortable, and they'll want to camp out there right.
Jeremy Marshall: Legendary preaching says, No, you you gotta preach from the whole Bible. Okay?
Jeremy Marshall: And then beautiful thing about it is is that if you're attentive to your congregation.
Jeremy Marshall: and you're you're you're attentive. And when I say, attentive, that's that's personal conversations with people that's using some assessment tools that that I've kind of developed once again, not all of my own. But you know, that that you're going to always find something in the Scriptures you're preaching through that is relevant and pertinent to the congregation. Even.
Jeremy Marshall: Preaching, you can still
Jeremy Marshall: create right? Like, you know, this kind of series and things like that that people like to do
Jeremy Marshall: so. For instance, you know, if I'm if I'm preaching through the Old Testament right.
Jeremy Marshall: I might call it
Jeremy Marshall: You know the shadow of Christ in the 10 commandments, or something like that, right
Jeremy Marshall: and and kind of bring out. Draw out how you, every page of Scripture, is going to lead you to Jesus.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: it once again. It just it. It has to do right. The the other thing is is I mean right? You you can just and I've done this to kind of meet with the elders and say, Okay, these are the issues we're facing right right now that we all agree on?
Jeremy Marshall: How can I best speak into those in preaching and teaching.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so I mean I've done it both ways.
Jeremy Marshall: And and I, and I mean, obviously, it's been effective both ways.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: In my in my current role, because right now I'm a family discipleship minister.
Jeremy Marshall: I I only I only preach about a dozen times a year, because we do have a
Jeremy Marshall: a regular pulpit minister.
Jeremy Marshall: but I teach all but one quarter a year. They they give me one quarter off, so that I can develop like this is my quarter off right now.
Stephen Walker: And and I'm using it to and I've been using it to develop things, okay.
Jeremy Marshall: If you want more specifically, I would I'd be glad to get into it.
Stephen Walker: No, that's good, that's good. That's helpful. Just to hear kind of your approach and philosophy, and and how you, your lecture preaching, and then your collaboration with elders. I think that that helps me understand your philosophy.
Jeremy Marshall: And I want to give you. I want to give you 2 other. If you could say parts.
Jeremy Marshall: You might have noticed. I've I've kind of developed a system that I call Psalm 23 discipleship.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And and this this is reflective.
Jeremy Marshall: not, you know, in in everything that I do as a minister, including my preaching and teaching. And and there's really 3 parts to it. It's like every every time I preach. It's grounded in the Gospel, meaning I'm always going to get you back to Christ, His empowerment, His promises. You know God's promises in him right.
Jeremy Marshall: I'm never! I'm never gonna give you what I call you ever heard of an unfunded mandate.
Stephen Walker: No.
Jeremy Marshall: An unfunded mandate is like when there'll be a Federal law saying, all public schools have to do, Xyz, but we're not going to give you more money to do it. It's kind of like when Pharaoh told the Hebrews you have to make. You have to keep making bricks and keep your quota there, but I'm not going to give you the straw.
Jeremy Marshall: To to tell people, Hey, you need to do XYZ. But not bring them to Christ.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Who is going to be able to empower them do Xyz is an unfunded mandate, and unfortunately, too much preaching is that.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: So it's it's grounded in the Gospel. That's the 1st part. When you read Psalm 23, look at who's doing the verbs
Jeremy Marshall: he is leading me. Christ.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: You know he is. He is. He is walking beside me right with the rod and staff of his, of His promises, of His cross over me in the shadow of death. He is preparing a meal for me in the presence of my enemy. Right? It's always gospel centered. It's always bringing you to Christ, because here's the deal we are all of us kind of like, you know. The paralyzed Guy and his friends dropped him down through the ceiling, so Jesus could heal him.
Jeremy Marshall: That's that's what that's the best we can do.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Is, bring somebody to Jesus.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: I can't. I can't heal you.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: You're right.
Jeremy Marshall: Amen. Amen! He can't.
Jeremy Marshall: So the second part is is rooted in the church, and I say, Look, if Jesus is our Good Shepherd. He has a flock.
Jeremy Marshall: and discipleship takes place in the life of the of the local church, and in the faith of
Jeremy Marshall: the the historic Church.
Jeremy Marshall: and and then, led by Christ in the Holy Spirit, is is the last part, because how does Christ guide us? How does Christ lead us? Well? He sent His own Holy Spirit to dwell in us, to live in us, to guide us and to comfort us. So that informs all of my preaching and teaching. If you, whenever you hear me in a pulpit and I'm preaching.
Jeremy Marshall: I'm always going to. I'm always going to
Jeremy Marshall: to get you back to Jesus.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: That's that's where we're gonna go. And I'm always I'm I'm I'm often going to bring it to where, hey? We're in this together.
Jeremy Marshall: or Hey, we're not the 1st Christians to go through this right? So that that's my approach. And I and I with teaching
Jeremy Marshall: I just finished up a family discipleship class which is
Jeremy Marshall: helping parents understand how to
Jeremy Marshall: basically create opportunities from discipleship within their schedules.
Stephen Walker: So that discipling your kids is not just one extra thing, that you do hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: On! Add on! Right.
Jeremy Marshall: And and every week I would give them a gospel promise to lean into where you know. So Jesus says He'll never leave you or forsake you, and that includes, while you're parenting right, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: And and
Jeremy Marshall: so you can lean into that promise. So I would always make sure that, even as I'm giving them very practical advice and trying to help, you know. Bring deliverables and all that stuff I'm still saying. Don't try to do this in your own power. Lean on the Lord.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: That's that that right there, all those other things I talked about, whether you're doing lectionary or this other way right.
Jeremy Marshall: But those are. Those are about kind of like technique.
Jeremy Marshall: Comes to this is the the core principle of how I operate.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: It comes down to this psalm 23. Discipleship. It comes down to being grounded in the gospel, rooted in the church, led by Christ in the Spirit.
Stephen Walker: That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you, Jeremy.
Stephen Walker: So why are you interested in leaving your current position.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah, it's it's really interesting. I'm not. I'm not really unhappy here.
Jeremy Marshall: I mean. Listen, there's always frustrations that come with ministry right.
Stephen Walker: -
Jeremy Marshall: And there's always frustrations with preachers and elders trying to deal with each other.
Jeremy Marshall: I'm not unhappy. I love the I love the lead minister I work with.
Jeremy Marshall: He's you know. I I love what he what we have on paper as as our vision, which is a gospel centered multicultural, multi-generational church
Jeremy Marshall: that leads people to worship God, follow Jesus and love their neighbor. Okay,
Jeremy Marshall: we are not as far along in that process as from what I understood from Ross and from looking at your website
Jeremy Marshall: as you guys are.
Jeremy Marshall: And so there are times when I'm frustrated by the lack of progress in those directions.
Stephen Walker: And.
Jeremy Marshall: And and it's not.
Jeremy Marshall: And so when when Ross was kind of telling me because he was calling to say, Hey, do you know anybody, and I just sort of said, Well, what's the church like? And he kind of told me, and I said, I don't know anybody off the top of my head, but I might be interested.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: This is one of those situations where
Jeremy Marshall: I am looking for a place where I can put down long term roots.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And it could be here.
Jeremy Marshall: And it could be somewhere else. One of the things that one of the lessons I learned in California.
Jeremy Marshall: Is is, don't wait for a situation to turn toxic.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Where you know what I mean before you, you look at you look at other options because God.
Jeremy Marshall: like God's gonna get you through whatever.
Jeremy Marshall: But you know, be open to where he may be calling you.
Jeremy Marshall: So this was. This was more out of curiosity than anything else. But I did appreciate. I felt like you guys, from what I can see from what Ross told me, from what I could see on your website.
Jeremy Marshall: You know, because you guys have kind of a be. The Bridge style ministry.
Jeremy Marshall: so that multi-generational part is is already in place. We still have a significant. And I don't know if your guys, if you guys are running into that.
Jeremy Marshall: But we still have a significant if I can be transparent.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: Running anybody down. I just want to be transparent. We still have a significant amount of
Jeremy Marshall: church members who look more like me.
Jeremy Marshall: Who think that just because we have a lot of people at color of color at brooks
Jeremy Marshall: that we don't have a race problem does that mean sense.
Stephen Walker: It does. It does.
Jeremy Marshall: It's that whole like I've you know some of my best friends are black, kind of thing, right? And and and and I'm I'm talking to someone who can probably appreciate why, that's not.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: How that actually works. Okay? And and so, when I saw that you guys were further along with that when I saw that you guys were further along, you you line up pretty much where I do on the participation of women in the public.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And that has been a very difficult transition.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And, brother, I'm I'm gonna be 45 on my birthday in March.
Jeremy Marshall: And I'm getting to a point in my life where I'm kind of.
Jeremy Marshall: And and and this has been hard. I've been praying about this a lot, actually as as kind of. Ross mentioned that to me. And I said, Well, you know, I'll explore this opportunity right
Jeremy Marshall: saying to God, God, am I just trying to look for an easier way out.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Because some of these things were already established, and I'm tired of fighting.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Or is this a situation where both me and a congregation would be better served
Jeremy Marshall: to have have me more in the, you know the lead minister kind of role.
Jeremy Marshall: Versus a discipleship, minister, role.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Is that? Does that make sense?
Jeremy Marshall: Does it? Does?
Jeremy Marshall: There's part of me. I'm just like I said. I'm tired of. I'm I'm tired of fighting the battles, because there's other battles to be fighting right that are more important in terms of the growth of the kingdom
Jeremy Marshall: in in a world where some of these issues of brand loyalty.
Jeremy Marshall: Are not the important thing. The important thing is getting people to have a relationship with Christ
Jeremy Marshall: in a church that has
Jeremy Marshall: Let's say, an orthodox faith. Little O orthodox right.
Jeremy Marshall: So, though, that's that's where my passion is.
Stephen Walker: Okay, okay. I think that aligns well with
Stephen Walker: how we see ourselves as a congregation. We still have some challenges as well. That that we deal with, and I think.
Stephen Walker: I don't think those challenges will ever be nonexistent.
Stephen Walker: you know they they may become less challenging.
Stephen Walker: but I think we're always going to have some challenge because it's
Stephen Walker: because this person that we're trying to become.
Stephen Walker: As a submitted Christian.
Stephen Walker: Is is a person that we have not lived. Maybe course of our life like right? And so it's easy. It becomes easy to revert back to
Stephen Walker: things that once was because it's more comfortable, and it doesn't require as much work, you know, doesn't require as much mental anguish it requires to change and re recalibrate ourselves. And so I think people are open and willing to accept that challenge. But all at the same time.
Stephen Walker: I think it's fair to acknowledge and to expect. People will sometime become weary, you know, and you know, and that's acceptable, because I think at the end of the day.
Stephen Walker: At the end of the day God is calling us to something, and I think
Stephen Walker: if I was to describe us, I think we want to be in alignment more with their calling than our preference.
Jeremy Marshall: Right! Amen!
Stephen Walker: You know. And so I think that that's what keeps us moving forward is because the desire to be obedient to God as opposed to what our preference and our comfort zone tells us to do. And so I think we, as a as a congregation, has been pulling away from our comfort zone.
Stephen Walker: and and I and I think we're at a place now to where it's still challenging from time to time. But we're further along than say we were you know, a while ago.
Jeremy Marshall: Right.
Stephen Walker: Right.
Jeremy Marshall: And and once again, if I can interject a little something here, this is where I I think that my gospel sent the gospel centric approach that I take which is really a Christ centered, Holy Spirit. Centered promises of God. Centered approach.
Jeremy Marshall: Right is is that there?
Jeremy Marshall: Paul has this great line in Galatians, where he says that you know the the spirit and the flesh are warring against each other.
Jeremy Marshall: And so you're frustrated. He says that right before talking about the brutal spirit. And so there's a i mean, the Christian life is literally. I have the spirit of God living inside a fallen, finite body.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And you talk about constantly. You know the flesh is wanting to revert to what's comfortable.
Stephen Walker: Yes.
Jeremy Marshall: The classic doctrine of sin is called in curbitus, in, say, in Latin, and what that means is, I'm curved inward on myself.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And it. It makes me decadent, and it makes me self-righteous.
Jeremy Marshall: If you think about the the 2 kind of big words of God, the the law and the gospel
Jeremy Marshall: are both calling me outside of myself, because what the law says is, I am to love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Jeremy Marshall: My neighbor is myself right? So where my flesh's natural inclination is to love me.
Stephen Walker: It.
Jeremy Marshall: What the law says is, no, you are to love God and love your neighbor. The gospel also calls me outside myself, because the gospel says, you cannot be your own Savior.
Stephen Walker: And.
Jeremy Marshall: You. You have to. You have to. You have to look to Christ, and you have to look to the subjective reality of what God has done, is doing and will do in Him.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so and so along with that comes, you know, like I often present the vision of Revelation. 7. Where in the end, what God will have. And this is a prophetic vision. So it's going to happen. Right is an innumerable host made up of every nation, race, tribe, and tongue under heaven, redeemed.
Stephen Walker: Anyone.
Jeremy Marshall: That is going to happen. That's not a maybe is gonna happen.
Jeremy Marshall: And so what we're trying, what we want to do right is lean into that as a no.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: Whereas the great Commission says, to go into all the world and and teach the nations here in America, God has actually done this thing where he's brought the nations to us.
Stephen Walker: Oh yes!
Jeremy Marshall: And and so and so that great commission mentality needs to needs to needs to, we need to be aware of that as we're interacting with our neighbors who are without the church.
Stephen Walker: It's beautiful, man. Thank you.
Stephen Walker: So, Jeremy, so how would your employer and coworker describe you.
Jeremy Marshall: I think that they would. Probably they would say that Jeremy is very studious when it comes to Scripture and theology.
Jeremy Marshall: I think the the minister I work with most likely most closely, and the elders might have might have some different assessments.
Jeremy Marshall: because he's a lot more familiar with what I do.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so they know that I would say they would say, Well, Jeremy's a bit of an introvert.
Jeremy Marshall: Now I can tell you what the the advantages of that are in a moment, if you want to. But I think that they would that they would say, and that Jeremy has a heart for Christ. Jeremy has a heart for the gospel, and Jeremy has a heart for people to grow in their faith and their knowledge of God.
Jeremy Marshall: I I would say that just from the feedback I've gotten off of them this year. As we were setting our goals for 2025 at the end of last year.
Jeremy Marshall: Is, you know they almost I almost felt like the elders were afraid that I'd bitten off more than I could chew.
Jeremy Marshall: But I said, look I,
Jeremy Marshall: I intentionally when I when I made these goals, if you notice, I put a certain timeline on them.
Jeremy Marshall: And I said, That's because I'm taking a break from teaching for the 1st quarter right.
Stephen Walker: No.
Jeremy Marshall: Way I can front load a lot of stuff.
Stephen Walker: Hey!
Jeremy Marshall: And then and then roll things out as the year progresses.
Jeremy Marshall: And and I mean I will say this, they are really good in terms of understanding
Jeremy Marshall: that I have a special needs, child.
Jeremy Marshall: and that very much impacts the rhythm of my life.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so, you know I but I guess I think that they would that they would that they would say, I'm I'm I am. I guess you could say a scholar and a gentleman, I think, is the phrase I've heard
Jeremy Marshall: but the elders do feel sometimes that I'm too much of an introvert. What I think that sometimes they don't understand. Sometimes I think in the church we baptize certain personality types.
Jeremy Marshall: No.
Jeremy Marshall: Think. Well, you know, the preacher needs to be this kind of extroverted, gregarious guy, and with some preachers and churches that works.
Jeremy Marshall: Hmm, especially if you have a if you have a strong eldership.
Jeremy Marshall: He's a bit deeper than the preacher. Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: What the the beauty of having a bit of an introvert as a preacher.
Jeremy Marshall: you know, as a minister of any kind is that when there's somebody in there with me.
Jeremy Marshall: I'm listening, and I'm completely engaged.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: I? I I actually sell in one on one and small group kind of situations a lot of times.
Jeremy Marshall: Not that. Not that I'm no deficient in the pulpit, but what I'm saying is in terms of soul care.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: The big. The big thing with me is a lot of times, and you know how this can go in. The church communication will break down at some level.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And and if, just like, I try to make the elders aware right obviously of when there's a spiritual need.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: Sometimes that communication does not flow as readily
Jeremy Marshall: in in in the other direction, and
Jeremy Marshall: the the thing is is that like I
Jeremy Marshall: I do a lot of like phone calls and visits and things like that
Jeremy Marshall: when I you know, when I have time versus the other things I'm doing, and
Jeremy Marshall: that to me is is soul care is learning, you know. Where is this person hurting?
Jeremy Marshall: What is this person afraid of?
Jeremy Marshall: And how can I speak? How can I speak Christ into that.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah, I think they would. They would probably say, Well, Jeremy is. I mean, if I just had to be really blunt about it. Jeremy is a Bible nerd. He's a theology nerd
Jeremy Marshall: he is. You know he's he's a great teacher. He's great in the pulpit.
Jeremy Marshall: You know, and that's not me. That's not me like trying to make myself cooler than I am.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: But I cause I'm just basing it off of what they've said. Hey, you're really great at this. You're really great at creating content.
Jeremy Marshall: you know, we wish you'd be doing Xyz more, whereas the reality is, is that a big part of my job as the family discipleship Minister? Here is our small groups. We call them journey groups.
Jeremy Marshall: And in the past year I've added
Jeremy Marshall: 4 new journey groups and increased participation by about 30%.
Jeremy Marshall: And so what they don't always see is that, hey? I'm actually doing my work. It's a lot easier when you're in a church situation. If you've got. So let's say we've got 10 journey groups. Now, okay.
Jeremy Marshall: if I produce content, which is usually video content with a with A, with a study guide.
Jeremy Marshall: And it's in house, right? We're not relying on other people. It's in house
Jeremy Marshall: I'm able to then minister to a hundred and some odd, you know. People.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Every week.
Jeremy Marshall: In a more intimate setting
Jeremy Marshall: versus if I'm trying to go from person to person, to person, to person, to person, to person.
Jeremy Marshall: You know I'm not an efficiency Guy, by any stretch of the imagination.
Jeremy Marshall: But if you talk about the efficiency of I'm 1 person
Jeremy Marshall: who's trying to get a congregation on the same page.
Jeremy Marshall: I think that's a i think that's that's probably one of the more efficient ways to do it.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: Especially in this day and age, where so many people are are consuming things right via the Internet via Youtube via social media. So just as the reformers embrace the printing press.
Jeremy Marshall: I've tried to be very proactive in embracing.
Jeremy Marshall: You know this, these kind of connected technologies and using them for good rather than evil.
Stephen Walker: Well that you've answered a couple of questions that I was going to be asking. So I think we'll skip those, but you brought up a couple of things that I would like to explore a little bit if that's okay and a little bit off script, but not too much.
Stephen Walker: So tell tell me what's your son's name?
Jeremy Marshall: August.
Stephen Walker: August, and to tell him, and and he's like 4 or 5. How old is he?
Jeremy Marshall: He's 5.
Stephen Walker: Is that your only child.
Jeremy Marshall: He's our only child. We didn't think we'd be able to have kids. We
Jeremy Marshall: we tried for a long time. We had pregnancy loss that was pretty traumatic.
Jeremy Marshall: and 9 years into our marriage he came along, and that it was a complicated pregnancy.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: My wife had severe Preeclampsia, spent
Jeremy Marshall: last 7 weeks of the pregnancy, mostly in the hospital on bed. Rest.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: He came 6 weeks early, with the cord around his neck. Twice.
Stephen Walker: Oh, man!
Jeremy Marshall: Spent time in the Nicu so
Jeremy Marshall: well. And it's really, brother, it's really it's it's kind of ironic, or how these things work out. Maybe not ironic providential. How about that?
Stephen Walker: 8.
Jeremy Marshall: We had always said that if we ever had a child with special needs we wouldn't have anymore, because we've known of situations where the younger siblings feel like
Jeremy Marshall: they didn't really get a full parent, because so much of the
Jeremy Marshall: time and attention and energy had to go to the the kid with the special needs. And so the one kid that God gave us.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Has autism.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so you know Megan does not work outside the home.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And you know, in in her primary work is him.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And my primary work, you know, out outside of my ministerial vocation.
Jeremy Marshall: Is to is to support her, and co-parent with her.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Stephen Walker: Hmm!
Stephen Walker: Now that's I understand that that's that's that is your primary work as a father and a husband,
Stephen Walker: you know, is to take care of your family on multiple levels. Obviously, the the basic needs, the physical needs. But the emotional needs are are really more as important, you know, because they have developmental things, and they keep the family cohesive. You know. So those are. Those are great priorities to have and
Stephen Walker: been interested to maybe one day meet August and
Stephen Walker: see see you get to see him get to know him a little bit, but.
Stephen Walker: So thank you. Thank you for sharing.
Stephen Walker: you talk a little bit about your small groups, and how you had added for groups we, we have small groups as well connect groups and so that's part of how we see ourselves in terms of recycling
Stephen Walker: growing as a congregation in terms of maturity, and also building community, and in ways that small groups can take care of one another in ways the bigger group may not be able to, because they know them more intimately. So small groups is one of the things that we really are focused on and trying to continue to make more healthier.
Stephen Walker: We, you know, like, since Covid came back from Covid, we've had some regression in several areas. Small groups, one of those in terms of a little bit of regression there. And so our attendance is down since coming back from being away from the building for a while. And so we we we we are.
Stephen Walker: We're doing fine, healthy in terms of our
Stephen Walker: Community will help me in a lot of ways. But in terms of trying to
Stephen Walker: continue to breathe in and and make the small groups viable and healthy. We've seen some regression there, and so just curious to to you. Talk a little bit about how you've grown your small groups.
Stephen Walker: you know you've added 4. So is that, does that come from existing members becoming more connected to small groups, or it has to do with bringing new people into the community. And they're becoming part of a small group or combination of both.
Jeremy Marshall: It's it's a combination. It's a combination. So one of the things that I've done, and you know there's there's always a difference between what you say and your message, because your message is cumulative, right? It's over time. But
Jeremy Marshall: so what? What? I the vision I've tried to communicate.
Jeremy Marshall: And this is a. This is a rooted in the church vision.
Stephen Walker: It's.
Jeremy Marshall: Is that what it used to be?
Jeremy Marshall: That church was was a a vital part of a community. It was part of village and community life, right.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so the people that you went to church with on Sunday.
Jeremy Marshall: We're also the people that you went to school with. They were the people that you did business with in the marketplace? Right? They were your neighbors right? You knew each other. You saw each other. Accountability was built in, not just into the church life, but into the broader community life of the town or village. Right
Jeremy Marshall: now, post-industrial revolution.
Jeremy Marshall: And and what we're seeing is that most churches of any size are commuter churches.
Jeremy Marshall: I'm I'm assuming yours is probably the same way.
Stephen Walker: It is.
Jeremy Marshall: And you know, living here in the Raleigh triangle. Right? And you know we have people who are there in Raleigh. We have people coming from Durham. Right? Wake Forest, Cary apex all the I'm in garner, which is a little suburb
Jeremy Marshall: and right?
Jeremy Marshall: And and so you have people coming sometimes from 45 min away.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so that what they don't have is that interaction
Jeremy Marshall: with each other on that regular basis.
Jeremy Marshall: So to me, it's kind of like. And I kind of picked this up from thinking about how kids used to just play together.
Stephen Walker: Hmm, okay.
Jeremy Marshall: We intentionally have to have playgroups.
Stephen Walker: And and.
Jeremy Marshall: Right.
Jeremy Marshall: And that, and that not only helps kids play together, but that also gives parents moms, and that kind of thing right, like an opportunity to form community around among themselves, right.
Jeremy Marshall: And so what? Our small groups where do you want journey groups, whatever life groups, people all have different names. They give them. But in small groups. They are. They're filling that role
Jeremy Marshall: of of what? What church is, part of village and community life used to be.
Jeremy Marshall: whereas that support, that encouragement, that accountability.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: Was was built into the rhythm and the structure of life
Jeremy Marshall: you're we're having to create be intentional about creating what we used to do organically.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: And I. And I found that that vision when you, when you kind of lay it out to people that way, it makes it makes sense to them.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And and then
Jeremy Marshall: The the other part is, is that what I'm being intentional about doing so in the past 3 weeks I baptized a young lady on December the 29th
Jeremy Marshall: and then the next Sunday, January 5, th had a young man who I'd had a meeting with, who's transfer membership cause he had, you know, had moved into the town.
Jeremy Marshall: and in both of those cases they lived in the Durham area, and one of our elders has a journey group in Durham.
Jeremy Marshall: And that it just so happened that that Elder's daughter and future son-in-law are also kind of running the college and young adult ministry.
Jeremy Marshall: So when I baptized that young lady, I made sure that the elder's wife, who nears another part of it. This elder's wife is is a black woman, and the young lady I was baptizing is too. So I had that elder's wife come back, was one of the people to help her, you know, and.
Stephen Walker: And then.
Jeremy Marshall: I was creating a a a a connection there. I say that because I know this is kind of random, because I don't worry about hair.
Jeremy Marshall: but I know that you know
Jeremy Marshall: a young woman of color does.
Jeremy Marshall: So I brought that I brought. I made sure to bring that elder's wife back there to make the connection, not only of representation right.
Jeremy Marshall: But also that she's gonna understand? Okay, this young lady is gonna need a bonnet when she's baptized. And
Jeremy Marshall: hmm! You, too, make sure everything was just right for this young lady's baptism right.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so what I was able to do then is then say, Okay, hey.
Jeremy Marshall: this, this sister right here and her husband have got this small group that meets on their home in their in their home during the week.
Jeremy Marshall: and you you live just a few miles away from them, and so I was able to make that connection, and then they were able to also help me make the connection between her and the college young adult ministry, and it was the same thing with the young man who joined. I mean he was living in the Durham area, so I informed that that Elder, who's also a journey group leader ahead of time and and then I you know I. So I am trying to be intentional about.
Stephen Walker: Now here, they!
Jeremy Marshall: And neighbors.
Stephen Walker: Functionality, okay.
Jeremy Marshall: To make sure. I kind of know where they live.
Jeremy Marshall: and then I can connect them with a journey group in their area. At least say he. Here's an option for more fellowship.
Jeremy Marshall: Is an Option for more community.
Jeremy Marshall: Encouragement and and actually make that connection face to face whenever I
Jeremy Marshall: it's not, it's not just. Here's your new member packet. Your Journey group is, you know the Garner Good News Club. That's my journey group, and we we gave all of ours peppy names.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so, you know, I try to be intentional about that.
Jeremy Marshall: And I think I think sometimes when you're trying to re like, build a new culture.
Jeremy Marshall: it's really difficult to get it
Jeremy Marshall: built within, as you said, people who are at a certain comfort level.
Jeremy Marshall: But if you're intentional about making it part of the culture for people who are coming in.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: Then it. Then it builds more, and sometimes you have to keep. You can't shut up about it.
Jeremy Marshall: Until it becomes part of the culture.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And Jeremy, that's that's very good. Thank you, brother.
Stephen Walker: so give me some examples of what best illustrates your leadership, style and people skill. You talk a little bit about people skills. So you don't have to get into that a little bit. But what illustrates your leadership style.
Stephen Walker: Okay?
Jeremy Marshall: This goes back to my psalm 23 discipleship model.
Jeremy Marshall: because I don't only consider that the the model of the believers relationship to Christ, right?
Jeremy Marshall: But this is what I I try. Now, look, we're not always successful, right? Because we're we're human. We're finance. We're falling.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah. But we're
Jeremy Marshall: where I strive is to use that model if I'm if if I am also serving as one of the good shepherds of people's souls.
Jeremy Marshall: as an as an under Shepherd of Christ.
Jeremy Marshall: Then I need to follow this model, too. And so what's Jesus? What's what's the Lord doing in that psalm? He's he's leading them to the green pastures and the waters of rest. Right? I'm bringing the word to the people. I'm bringing them to Christ.
Jeremy Marshall: And I'm bringing Christ before them right. He is holding aloft when they're going through the the dark valley right. He's holding aloft the promises of God, the rod and staff to comfort them in the face of Satan. Sin and death essentially.
Jeremy Marshall: and and and and and and I think about my prayers are, you know I'm I'm begging God I'm urging, not begging. I'll have to beg. I am urging I am. I am earnestly asking God to be their rear guard.
Jeremy Marshall: chasing them with goodness and mercy all the way home.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so and so what? That is. That's positional. When I'm leading.
Jeremy Marshall: when I'm upfront, I'm preaching. I'm teaching. I'm doing something in official capacity whatever. Right? I'm wanting to lead them to Christ.
Jeremy Marshall: When when they're going through it. I am beside them.
Jeremy Marshall: There's a positional thing there, and it's not just my presence, but I'm I'm holding aloft the promises of the gospel before them.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: They're going through it.
Jeremy Marshall: Because what better comfort do I have to give someone.
Stephen Walker: You don't. You don't have anything better.
Jeremy Marshall: And then, and then, just in my day to day life.
Jeremy Marshall: I am praying that the Lord would always be their rear guard like, I said, chasing them with goodness and mercy all the days of their.
Stephen Walker: Yeah. Alright.
Jeremy Marshall: And that's that's my! That's my philosophy for ministry.
Stephen Walker: Okay, wow, great, thank you, man, that's awesome.
Stephen Walker: Talk a little. We've already talked a bit about some of your areas of strength. And they're great. Appreciate those. But how do you see some of your areas of weakness, as far as you see yourself in those areas.
Jeremy Marshall: I think. And the these are things that I'm I'm constantly having to work on.
Jeremy Marshall: I can. I can be a bit of a people pleaser.
Jeremy Marshall: and a lot of times that comes from a good place.
Jeremy Marshall: But and I'll give you a case in point because of the situation that I inherited when I was in California.
Jeremy Marshall: I thought to myself, Well, I'm going to be. If if this guy in this group of people caused all this damage, I'm going to be the anti that.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay, in pursuit of being, let's say more gentle.
Jeremy Marshall: Wasn't always as proactive and even at times. I mean, there are times when we have to be firm right.
Jeremy Marshall: As I should have been, and that created problems down the line.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: In terms in terms of of
Jeremy Marshall: me being viewed as kind of a pushover.
Jeremy Marshall: When in reality it's like, no, I was trying to be gracious guys.
Stephen Walker: Hmm, hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Does that make sense.
Stephen Walker: It does.
Jeremy Marshall: And so that's that's 1 and and so one of the things I'm always looking for is I? I don't need to be a people pleaser. I need to be a Lord pleaser.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: You know I need to be thinking in terms always of
Jeremy Marshall: when, when when I stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Jeremy Marshall: Yes, I need to be aware. I don't want to stand up there with a bunch of broken reeds, you know. Jesus said he wouldn't. He wouldn't break a bent. Read.
Jeremy Marshall: Like on my conscience, but at the same time
Jeremy Marshall: right. A minister has to cultivate more than one voice.
Jeremy Marshall: There's the voice that that calls, gathers and comforts the sheep.
Jeremy Marshall: But there's also the voice of warning.
Jeremy Marshall: There's also the voice of admonishment.
Jeremy Marshall: There's also the voice that you have to use to chase away the wolves.
Stephen Walker: Hmm,
Jeremy Marshall: And so that's 1 another. Another thing is that I can become.
Jeremy Marshall: and this is I'm i i was late diagnosed with with pretty profound Adhd to the point that the person who diagnosed me goes.
Jeremy Marshall: How did you make it this far?
Jeremy Marshall: And so one of the one of the the things with that is, I can become very hyper focused, which gives me kind of task. Oriented tunnel vision.
Jeremy Marshall: And so transitions can be difficult.
Jeremy Marshall: I need to learn a lot of times where to to say, Okay, I need to stop this for the day.
Jeremy Marshall: So I can go to attend to this over here.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay, does that make sense.
Stephen Walker: It does.
Jeremy Marshall: Because a lot, a lot of times what will happen is so let's say that, you know I know I need. I know I need to get a sermon ready every week.
Jeremy Marshall: But I know this person's in the hospital.
Jeremy Marshall: The issue is not that I won't go visit that person in the hospital.
Jeremy Marshall: The issue is that a lot of times after I'm done with that? It's hard for me to get back into the okay. Well, this you know what I mean.
Jeremy Marshall: Lot of times.
Stephen Walker: The transition points.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah, right?
Jeremy Marshall: The trans, the transition points can be difficult for me. I'm not. Gonna I'm not gonna sugarcoat that.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: You know. Here, here's the deal. I'm I'm a big student of church history. Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: in the Protestant Reformation. Martin Luther was the bull in the china shop, but he had Philip Melanchthon
Jeremy Marshall: Melanchthon was.
Jeremy Marshall: He was a bit of a hobbit. You know what I mean by that, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: and the thing is, though you had to have both.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: You had to have both.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: And and I will. My my personality is a little bit more melanchiny, and when I say that, let me give you an example, somebody from another part of Europe who was, you know they were. They were trying to reform the Church in their area, said, You know, I want to go to Wittenberg. Well, Luther was out on a preaching tour, and so they said, but Melanchthon's here, and what they expected was that they would find Melanchthon in his office at the University, or something like that. No, no, he's he's home home. Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: And they came in, and what they found was Philip Melanchthon. While his wife was cooking and things like that. He he was. He was reading a book and rocking the baby's cradle.
Jeremy Marshall: and they were just so shocked that this guy who they've read his stuff. He's, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: that's him. That's that's me.
Stephen Walker: No.
Jeremy Marshall: Now, you know, if that scares you off then this wasn't meant to be, but I have to be honest.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, no, that doesn't frighten me.
Jeremy Marshall: Because some people they, you know, they think well, the lead minister has got to be very gregarious, and that kind of thing.
Jeremy Marshall: and in some churches. That's the case, and I'm not unfriendly. I'm not unapproachable.
Jeremy Marshall: But I I am something of a homebody.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: And that doesn't mean I'm not gonna show up to to church events. That doesn't. You know what I mean? It's not that. It's just that.
Jeremy Marshall: I take things in a bit of a slower flip.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: And and I would rather be careful and systematic in my thinking and my approaches.
Jeremy Marshall: Then do something half-cocked.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: Because some people, some people, can improvise, and they do great.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: I'm not one of those people.
Stephen Walker: Okay, okay.
Stephen Walker: you like, things start out, sounds like like things start out. And so you like to create the path that you want to travel. And it.
Jeremy Marshall: Right, right.
Stephen Walker: Gotcha, I gotcha, that's that's that's no, that's nothing wrong with that.
Stephen Walker: I think God created us all uniquely
Stephen Walker: and for specific roles in our in the Kingdom building, and so acknowledging and accepting who you are, and you're you know how God has created you. And leaning into that and just making that the best possible person you can be. That's exactly what you need to be doing, you know. That's it, you know, rather than I think a lot of times you get into this thing where we're looking at ourselves and comparing ourselves as someone else that might be in the same position that we're doing.
Stephen Walker: And we think that I need to be more like that because that person like he's successful. But that's not really
Stephen Walker: necessarily true. It can be, you know, because you can be doing this service, not only to you, to the kingdom, because you, you know what you have is unique.
Stephen Walker: and it's going to speak to a unique group. Right? And so God has given you that role and and there's nothing wrong with that, I mean. But you know, and also God do call us out of our. We talked about this out of our conference. Think of Moses.
Stephen Walker: You know God, God will call us out of things to do other things. I think just being open to that as well realize that we're being called.
Stephen Walker: not because we want to be a better version of ourselves, but we want to be a better a version of who God want us to be right. And so there's a difference.
Jeremy Marshall: Right.
Stephen Walker: Right. There's a difference when we're when we when we're trying to be a call to doing something different versus us initiating something. So we want to be something different and better, because we see somebody else doing that one thing. So that that is a
Stephen Walker: right there, you know. So.
Jeremy Marshall: That's a major difference. And if you, if you'd allow me that that Moses story is fascinating to me, and I'll tell you why. Because if you, if you read how Hebrews, and also Stephen and acts, presents Moses.
Jeremy Marshall: They don't present Moses what he did in Egypt. With that they don't present it as murder.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: They said that that no Moses thought the people would understand is.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: Even deliberate them.
Stephen Walker: Yes, yes.
Jeremy Marshall: Another thing. I I always I always cringe when people say Moses was a murderer.
Jeremy Marshall: because the word that it's used for the the foreman who was beating the slave. It's it's the same word that is used later, when God sends a plague on the people. So the idea is that the way the guy was beating that slave he was using deadly force.
Stephen Walker: Oh!
Jeremy Marshall: What did Moses do?
Jeremy Marshall: He used an equal force.
Jeremy Marshall: The guy right? That's not murder. That's defense.
Jeremy Marshall: So what I'm saying is, but that did not turn out the way Moses had hoped that it would turn out right.
Jeremy Marshall: Those is. Then he runs out, and he finds this very comfortable life for himself, like you talk about comfort zones right.
Jeremy Marshall: Is sort of watching.
Jeremy Marshall: you know, Jethro, sheep man, and he's good with that. But here's the beautiful thing about Moses when he sees the burning bush that's not consumed.
Jeremy Marshall: Now somebody might go, man, that's weird, and just walk on by.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: Moses says, what does he say? I'm this is strange, and I'm going to come. Look at it!
Jeremy Marshall: And and ultimately, even though Moses, he kind of quibbles with what the Lord is asking him to do. If you think about who Moses has already demonstrated himself to be.
Jeremy Marshall: both in the act of coming to the defense of of the the Hebrew slave who's being mistreated is being really threatened, his life threatened.
Jeremy Marshall: And the fact that Moses shows this kind of really cool curiosity right
Jeremy Marshall: about what's going on in this weird thing.
Jeremy Marshall: You realize that this is this is actually already who God is made Moses to be.
Jeremy Marshall: Moses has become comfortable, being less than.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: What God!
Stephen Walker: Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: And so there is this thing where God is still working with the grain of who these people are.
Jeremy Marshall: Moses and David are both shepherds.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: Before he puts them in charge of his people.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: And and so ultimately right there, there! God! God doesn't ignore
Jeremy Marshall: who we are, because that's that's His work, too.
Jeremy Marshall: Even when he's calling us outside of our comfort zones.
Jeremy Marshall: He's not ignoring who we are in the process.
Stephen Walker: No, he's not.
Stephen Walker: No, he he's he's not. And and he created us to be who we are right, and he knows he knows what? Not necessarily our capabilities, but he knows what we're capable of when he is in our presence.
Stephen Walker: you know he he, you know, you know, and and I think that's what Moses was struggling with is because he saw his limitations.
Stephen Walker: You know, he saw his limitations, and he saw his preference in terms of he had over 40 years. He had learned to accept a role where he wasn't a prominent figure, right? And and so that had become a comfort to him not to be a prominent figure for those 40 years now God is calling him to be a very prominent figure, probably one of the most visible figures in Egypt, you know, to go before Pharaoh and let all these slaves know.
Stephen Walker: you know that that's a that is a bodacious.
Jeremy Marshall: That's a great word.
Stephen Walker: You know, and so I understand why Moses was like
Stephen Walker: I don't think so, you know, but
Stephen Walker: but he realized at some point that God had equipped him to do what he needed to do right.
Stephen Walker: He let go of his inclination, you know, to be not the prominent figure to be someone who just is comfortable, being in a lowly or position, and just doing what he needs to do there. But God called him to this prominence, but, like you said it was interesting that he was a shepherd.
Stephen Walker: you know.
Stephen Walker: And so you learn a lot of lessons.
Stephen Walker: You learn a lot of lessons as a shepherd in terms of how you know to lead. And so God was equipping him, even in those 40 years, to do what he was calling him to do.
Jeremy Marshall: And and Brother Steven, this goes back to some of the earliest things that we that we conversed about
Jeremy Marshall: when you ask. Well, you know kind of about my interest in that kind of thing, and I told you some of the struggle I had back and forth, you know, even thinking about, you know. But yeah, I mean, here's the deal after after my experience in California and I. And I've told Brian, our lead minister. This I said, man. I love being the robin to somebody else's batman, because.
Jeremy Marshall: 7 years, being the guy right?
Jeremy Marshall: And and.
Stephen Walker: So you you've kind of helped me think through it because I said, Well, and you know, I said earlier.
Jeremy Marshall: Am I just tired of fighting these battles? And so I'm going to run away to, you know. Go go somewhere else where I feel like it's maybe more settled.
Jeremy Marshall: Or is the real issue that in the past 3 years I've gotten to be real comfortable.
Jeremy Marshall: not being the guy.
Jeremy Marshall: As it were.
Jeremy Marshall: And right, you see what I'm getting at.
Stephen Walker: I do? I do?
Jeremy Marshall: That that perhaps you know God is saying.
Jeremy Marshall: You know what I let. I let you sit that one out for a little while.
Jeremy Marshall: See you could, you know, maybe heal up and.
Jeremy Marshall: Learn some more lessons and get a few, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: So that's actually even even this conversation has kind of helped me in that regard.
Stephen Walker: Oh, well, God uses thank if you use me in that area. Thank thank God for it, brother.
Jeremy Marshall: Because I think I think one of the you know you talked about. How would how would the elders and and minister that I work with. Talk about me, and you ask about my weaknesses.
Jeremy Marshall: I think one of the one of the places where now, myself in the in the lead, in the preaching minister see this differently than they do. But a lot of times, because the preaching minister came in, he had a very clear vision. He communicated it. I got on board with it. Because I'm like, Yeah, I like this vision. I believe in it right? And I want to support you. However, I can. I think the elders sometimes think that that means I'm not being my own man.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: When in reality okay.
Jeremy Marshall: that's it's more of a function of me saying, No, I I believe in this vision.
Jeremy Marshall: And so given my talents, and where God has placed me.
Jeremy Marshall: I want to be able to support that vision in a healthy way, because one man can't do everything.
Stephen Walker: No, we can't. No, and you want people pulling in the same direction.
Stephen Walker: You want. You want people on board with the vision, so that you're pulling in the same direction because it it just creates more frustration and aggravation. If you're not alone.
Jeremy Marshall: Right.
Stephen Walker: Minister, you know you you don't. That that's to me is not as productive or even healthy. If you're not aligned, you know. I think being in alignment is a good thing.
Stephen Walker: being in alignment with the same vision, and see yourself as a person who can maybe be a part of helping that vision to come to fruition. You know, doing whatever
Stephen Walker: you can do in terms of your uniqueness to make that work. And you've done some things. I mean with your small group, the way the way you've kind of cultivated and and coalesced a small group, and how you approached it.
Stephen Walker: You know it's very grassrootish, and you know, and that's a and that's unique to how you want to approach it. And it's grown. And you know. So you know. So I think the proof is in the pudding in terms of how you've kind of aligned yourself and supported the vision of of the Church and of the lead Minister. So
Stephen Walker: yeah, no, that that sounds great. I wanted to also give you an opportunity, Jeremy, if you had any questions for me before we close things out.
Jeremy Marshall: Yes, absolutely. And I and I apologize.
Jeremy Marshall: These kind of I don't know if you want to call it interviews, conversations, whatever. They're never short with me, and I apologize for that.
Stephen Walker: Okay? No. Problem.
Jeremy Marshall: Brevity is not brevity is not my, is not always my strong suit.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay?
Jeremy Marshall: that's 1 of the things I love about our lead minister is. He can take my my scattered ideas
Jeremy Marshall: for my adhd brain and and help me coalesce them into something that's
Jeremy Marshall: a lot more palatable, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: that's 1 of the things I love about working with him.
Stephen Walker: Yes.
Jeremy Marshall: What characteristics are you looking for in a preaching minister, and and what you know there's a follow up to that. But what characteristics. Are you looking for.
Stephen Walker: Okay, that's that's a that's a good question. So we we are
Stephen Walker: an older congregation. Right? We we so we we. We want a a minister if God says yes, but we 1st 1st of all, we we want
Stephen Walker: to be where God is calling us to be in terms of our minister. Search right? And so where we are aligned.
Stephen Walker: I'm not necessarily saying that's gonna be exactly where God is aligned. So so we're we're we're making these adjustments.
Stephen Walker: you know. So but I'll I'll tell you where we are now. But that doesn't necessarily mean that's where we're gonna be where we finally find our ministers. God may have something different for us.
Stephen Walker: And so what we would like is someone
Stephen Walker: who is, you know, who has a passion for the next generation.
Stephen Walker: Someone who is who understands kind of and have the language. So the next generation can hear the gospel.
Stephen Walker: because sometimes how the gospel is presented.
Stephen Walker: You know, it's it's critical for certain ears to listen right. And so under someone that has that passion and understanding and and and also a desire to continue to
Stephen Walker: speak into that next generation. Right? So that that's 1 the other thing is, we're collaborative leadership, meaning that the elders and ministers, especially the lead Minister our former lead minister. He was in almost all of our elders meetings, and so and he had a role. That will help. It helped us to be better shepherds because
Stephen Walker: his perspective
Stephen Walker: he! He was engaging more in ways in ways that we could not, because it was his full-time role, where at the time a lot of our elders had other full-time responsibilities, right? And so so pastoral things were you know, some some things that he would bring to the table that help us to better understand what was going on with an individual or families.
Stephen Walker: because, you know, he that was his, he was a full time minister in that role, and people will will come to him with some of those things, and then he was able to share those things with us, and and so that you know someone who can work with us
Stephen Walker: in ways that help us to be better shepherds
Stephen Walker: that you know, so that that will be one another thing. Someone who who is
Stephen Walker: have an evangelistic kind of perspective in terms of reaching the loss.
Stephen Walker: and I don't know if words always lost is not the best word, but reaching out, reaching people who maybe are open to hearing the gospel that are seeking and and have some intentionality about not only when people walk through the door, how we help them to take those next steps. But also, you know, equipping the congregation to be more
Stephen Walker: thoughtful and opportunistic about opportunities that are in front of us right? And so we don't. We're not so look for that person to be all of that. But maybe equipping the congregation to start looking for ways that we can be more opportunistic about taking advantage of the opportunities that are in front of us. You know, as we as we are living our lives.
Stephen Walker: We are also making sure that we are keeping the Kingdom business at the forefront of us, living our lives, and and when opportunities are present itself for us to share our share. The gospel share our faith story, you know. Or help people take next steps. We're there to do that right. So those, I think those are some of the things.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay, that sounds that sounds great. Here's here's an area of of alignment. With that I can think of. Have you heard of the book? Dchurched.
Stephen Walker: Yes.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay, have you? Have you gotten to read it?
Stephen Walker: I've I've I've listened to and read parts of it. Yes.
Jeremy Marshall: What are your thoughts on it?
Stephen Walker: Oh, I there's a couple of pieces that
Stephen Walker: that I pulled out of that in terms of understanding
Stephen Walker: where we are on the other spectrum.
Stephen Walker: You know. And
Stephen Walker: and I think as I was kind of looking through that and thinking about us, I think we are maybe on the top. Left sides.
Jeremy Marshall: Right, right.
Stephen Walker: You know of the spectrum, so that that part just helping to analyze where we are. And then what are some of the steps we can do to infuse, you know, to get us moving back on the to the other side of the spectrum. And so so I think the book have helped me to think through that a little bit. and so I think that was one of my takeaways. But
Stephen Walker: So what about you? What are your thoughts?
Jeremy Marshall: No, I'm a i'm a big fan. That means you. You're further along in the process even than than of thinking through those things being intentional about thinking through them. So no, that was the only reason I asked, is that is it like, Wow, okay, you're proactive because I've been trying to. I've been trying to trying to get
Jeremy Marshall: leadership here to like. Just sit down and do a study of that book with me.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: You see what I'm getting at.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, I do. I do.
Jeremy Marshall: If if I'm hearing one of the elders say, Oh, yeah, I've already looked at that. We've we've we've you know. I've digested some of that information right?
Jeremy Marshall: And I'm like, Okay, you're you're ahead of the curve even than when I where I was hoping that that Bro, that makes me happy.
Stephen Walker: Oh! That!
Jeremy Marshall: You. Here's another thing about me. I don't always express joy like real frontally, I'm just not.
Jeremy Marshall: That's okay.
Jeremy Marshall: I'm not wired like that.
Jeremy Marshall: But so if I say, you know something like Bro, that makes me happy
Jeremy Marshall: on the inside, I'm jumping up and down so.
Jeremy Marshall: No, I I think that's I think that's great. I think you you actually sort of answered in a in a general way, the second part of my question, which is more about expectations. Yeah. But I also think here's something that I found
Jeremy Marshall: you. You put kind of what you want in a job description.
Jeremy Marshall: But then you get the person that God sends you, and especially if you have other staff that they're coordinating with.
Jeremy Marshall: You find that some of those expectations have to shift a bit.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: Yes, the the elders and the ministers, and the staff that you actually have.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: No so, and and there there's a there's a there's almost a jazz like quality to it where there has to be.
Jeremy Marshall: I hate this word, but there has to be a degree of it's not really improvisation, but it's a it's a degree of shifting.
Jeremy Marshall: And settling. Yeah. So okay, cool. I that made me happy to hear what you just said. Everything you said made me made me, please just punch to here.
Jeremy Marshall: this is. This is a couple of questions that really have to do with my with my son.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: Our our autistic son. Now, to give you a little bit of a background. He didn't talk until he was almost 3.
Stephen Walker: Wow!
Jeremy Marshall: And he learned to talk by learning to read.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: We don't know how he learned to read, used it.
Jeremy Marshall: Wow!
Jeremy Marshall: He still, though he has a lot of social, emotional, right kind of issues.
Jeremy Marshall: We are currently at a church that has a special needs ministry. That's a big part of what they do.
Stephen Walker: Okay. Cool.
Jeremy Marshall: And he was. He was very involved in that when we 1st got here. But that ministry has actually grown.
Jeremy Marshall: and because the other kids are like non verbal and very, you know.
Jeremy Marshall: He's not. He's not able to participate like he was because they actually set off his autism triggers.
Stephen Walker: Hmm.
Jeremy Marshall: So the question I have, artistic child has vocal stems.
Stephen Walker: Probably lay under a pew sometimes.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: Is that okay?
Stephen Walker: That's okay. We love. I mean, we are.
Stephen Walker: We are a unique church.
Stephen Walker: we had. I think this was Pre Covid. We had what was called a boundless room, where we had set up a place where our artistic children can be.
Stephen Walker: can can have a place to be themselves.
Jeremy Marshall: That that's what and that, and and that's really where he's at.
Stephen Walker: Yeah.
Jeremy Marshall: That's that's what he's need. The other thing is, and this has to do with look. When we, when we were in California, when we 1st had had come to that church. We were, we were, you know, we didn't have kids.
Jeremy Marshall: And my wife volunteered and basically ran the children's education.
Jeremy Marshall: Once Augie came along she had to pull back.
Jeremy Marshall: For for obvious reasons, and then, especially as we realized his condition.
Jeremy Marshall: Covid.
Jeremy Marshall: There was an expectation of of
Jeremy Marshall: what she was going to do.
Jeremy Marshall: and when she was no longer able to fill that.
Jeremy Marshall: Well, you can imagine.
Jeremy Marshall: There were some things that were not as gracious as.
Jeremy Marshall: Will you be understanding of of my wife as a minister's wife?
Jeremy Marshall: Maybe not always being as
Jeremy Marshall: as involved and engaged as sometimes ministers, wives are.
Stephen Walker: I'll answer it this way.
Stephen Walker: I think you will find us.
Stephen Walker: We want our leaders to be aligned and using their lives, prioritizing their lives based on God, how God's prioritized this kingdom and His preferences for us, how we want to live our lives
Stephen Walker: and family is an extremely high, maybe one of the highest priorities of community, for
Stephen Walker: for God, in terms of us, as parents and us and families, and how we love and prepare our children for him down the road. And so anything related to family being a priority.
Stephen Walker: I think you'll especially with a special needs, child.
Stephen Walker: I think you will see a lot of support from us with that. You know, because we we want. We want our leaders to be in a place where they can flourish, and it the and it. If this moves forward, we realize that August has some special needs, and it wouldn't do us any good if we had expectations for Megan
Stephen Walker: that pulled her away from August in ways that was probably not good for you as a family, because ultimately it has a that has rippling effect that'll come back and impact you, you know, in terms of your your role. And so I think I think we would. Under. You know, we continue down this road.
Stephen Walker: we're by proxy, are accepting August and Megan's role
Stephen Walker: as the primary caregiver for August. And so so yeah, so I think that would be something that we would work with, and we'll figure it out as we go along, so to speak.
Jeremy Marshall: Thank you. That's that's incredibly comforting to hear.
Jeremy Marshall: That's that's all I needed to hear on that. Thank you. Okay, okay.
Jeremy Marshall: So those were, those were my big questions. It's it's basically.
Stephen Walker: Okay.
Jeremy Marshall: You know, I just wanna I just want to see what your, what your thoughts are on alignment. And it seems like you have that very kind of organic spirit led, you know, sensibility there, which makes me just really tickled to death. Man.
Stephen Walker: Oh, man, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you, man, and and so what I'm going to do like, I said. We recorded this session. I'm going to send it to the other elders for them to watch, and then I'll be getting back to you once I get feedback from them.
Jeremy Marshall: Okay.
Stephen Walker: Kind of what's going on, and then I'll get back to you, and we'll talk about next steps.
Jeremy Marshall: Alright, brother, thank you.
Stephen Walker: Thank you, man, it's been our pleasure.
Jeremy Marshall: My pleasure, too. That's a great conversation.
Jeremy Marshall: Hold on!
Jeremy Marshall: I'd be real pleased if we could continue these conversations.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, hope August and Megan are feeling better over the weekend, and and hope you don't get caught up in whatever's going on in terms of their sickness, and so hope that that can bypass you hopefully.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah, I just. I just had to send them. I sent a message, but one of the elders had sent a message on the elders and ministers. Whatsapp chat that we keep going.
Jeremy Marshall: Saying, you know, hey? We're going through tissues like crazy at my house, so don't expect to see me. Sunday.
Jeremy Marshall: Actually. We kept Auggie out of school today because he's got some kind of stomach bug and Megan seems to be coming along down with it, too, and I'm knocking on wood that I don't get it.
Stephen Walker: Yeah, yes, yes. Understand? Okay. So alright.
Stephen Walker: All right, brother, thank you. Thanks. Jeremy.
Jeremy Marshall: Yeah, it's been a pleasure, brother, likewise.
Jeremy Marshall: See you later.